The all new, Mayweather/Pac Master Discussion Thread - The fight that will never be.

[ADP02]

was floyd's 50/50 offer indicative of him wanting the fight? Yes. was manny's refusal of that offer over osdt for both fighters indicative of him wanting the fight? NO!!

was floyd's efforts to compromise on a cutoff date, offering 24, 14, and 7 days, indicative of him wanting the fight. Yes. was manny's refusal of each of these offers indicative of him wanting the fight? NO!!

was manny's agreeing to osdt after floyd took it off the table because manny wouldn't budge from his position for 5 1/2 months indicative of him wanting the fight? no

was floyd's calling manny and offering himn $40 mil guarantee and 0 cut of the ppv revenue, including wiring him $20 mil up front indicative of him wanting the fight? YES

is that offer greedy as **** and likely to be turned down by team manny because they expect to get much more than that? YES

so what this all comes down to is what offer does floyd have to make to get manny to sign. Manny can say he'll take 45% which is fine. But if he's only worth 25-30% thats about all floyd is going to offer him. why? Because manny played hardball when he had the advantage and floyd is playing hardball now that he has the advantage.

STOP *****ING ABOUT THAT!! Manny had ample opportunities to accept a 50/50 offer for osdt. Even if you LOVE manny, in your heart you know that when you negotiate like that its going to make the other party respond in kind.

At some point, you have to hold manny accountable for his inital refusal and negotiating tactics as they relate to this fight. But you want to just forget about that and say "hey floyd that was then, this is now, come on do whats right for the fans." Man, go ahead with that bull****!

If posters like you had any integrity you'd admit that delaying big fights is a staple of BOb Arum's for years. He's done that with stars that were MUCH bigger and generated far more money thn Manny. Yet you pretend that somehow with this fight that this isn't the case.

Notice the pattern? Manny changed from absolutely no oasdt to osdt in exchange for 50/50. He changed on the cutoff dates. He changed from only wanting 50/50 to saying i'll accept 45%, He's not doing this because he wants the fight, he's doing it because he HAS to to even be considered for a floyd fight given his earlier negotiaing tactics.

Floyd knows a fight with him is the most lucrative fight for ANY fighter in boxing. Yes he could be more reasonable with Manny as he is with other opponents. Yes he could let the stuff from dec 09 go and make negotiations smoother. Yes he could be more flexible because he fights generally once a year and move off May 5th weekend.

Manny is his own man. Hold him accountable for his actions. If he refuses an offer its not because of the offer. The same way youi hold JMM or Cotto accountable when they turn down fights with Manny when they are upset with the offer. Stop the double standard bull****!

Funny how when:
Floyd says something, you say "it was an indication that Floyd was serious"
Manny says something, you say "it was an indication that Manny was NOT serious"


Drug Testing:
- First came the ACCUSATION that a boxer/politician was taking illegal PEDS when Floyd had NO PROOF. This in itself should bring suspicion to anyone ... but I'm sure you're OK with Floyd doing that because for you it must have meant that Floyd was serious in getting the fight on.
- Prior to Manny, who has Floyd asked for testing?
- Initially, Manny gave in and agreed to testing but not to the point that Floyd wished for .... but you don't mention that! and Floyd didn't to the point Manny wanted. It may be hard for you to digest but it goes both ways!
- Manny and Floyd were in discussion so Floyd knew what Manny would and wouldn't do(ie. the limit). So for Floyd, 14 days was a "safe" cutoff date. Secondly, Floyd could still have said, "I change my mind, no cutoffs or bring up the no 50/50 sooner."
- Remember that even back then Floyd mentioned that he wouldn't do 50/50. See above point!
- TAKE THE TEST AND WE HAVE A FIGHT! People who bought the T-Shirts should sue!!! lol!



50/50:
- Are you serious? There was the Testing roadblock at the time but when Manny said OK to testing, Floyd said no to 50/50 and put a NEW roadblock!


$40 million for Manny all PPV for Floyd:
- You agree it was wrong of Floyd. So you need to ask yourself why would he go to that extreme?


Roadblocks:
- Floyd fans said time after time, all Manny needs to do is bluff Floyd and if Floyd puts another roadblock then we know who doesn't want the fight. Well now, there have been several roadblocks/delays from Accusations, Drug testing, vacations, jail, money, .... all due to Floyd!!!!


Manny played hardball you say:
- When has Manny played hardball by asking Floyd to do something that would be considered a roadblock that was not created by Floyd?


Arum: I don't trust Arum and Floyd but I trust that Manny wants this fight due to his actions.
- Still you need to ask yourself, what were all the big roadblocks and who placed these roadbocks? Notice the pattern? The answer to that question is FLoyd NOT Arum!!!

Marquez & Cotto:
- May I remind you that even if negotiations were tough, Manny fought Marquez 4 times and Cotto once. Manny vs Floyd after 3 years ..... 0 fights!!! So your logic does not hold!


Manny giving in:
- Manny gave in to drug testing and taking less yet you say it's not because Manny wants the fight? YIKES!!! .... but for you, Floyd putting all those roadblocks is OK and that he wants the fight? Terrible logic on your part!


While I questioned it, I tried my best to say that it was all part of negotiations at first but once Floyd pulled the "I WANT ALL PPV MONEY" I now think that Floyd is not interested in this fight .... his 0 is way too precious to lose even though Floyd is the favourite. Floyd and company have been spooked since Hatton but when it really changed for them was when big Cotto lost badly to Manny. Just listen to Roger, Floyd Sr and Jr ... they said what Manny has done was incredible.

[The Big Dunn]

Funny how when:
Floyd says something, you say "it was an indication that Floyd was serious"
Manny says something, you say "it was an indication that Manny was NOT serious"


Drug Testing:
- First came the ACCUSATION that a boxer/politician was taking illegal PEDS when Floyd had NO PROOF. This in itself should bring suspicion to anyone ... but I'm sure you're OK with Floyd doing that because for you it must have meant that Floyd was serious in getting the fight on.
- Prior to Manny, who has Floyd asked for testing?
- Initially, Manny gave in and agreed to testing but not to the point that Floyd wished for .... but you don't mention that! and Floyd didn't to the point Manny wanted. It may be hard for you to digest but it goes both ways!
- Manny and Floyd were in discussion so Floyd knew what Manny would and wouldn't do(ie. the limit). So for Floyd, 14 days was a "safe" cutoff date. Secondly, Floyd could still have said, "I change my mind, no cutoffs or bring up the no 50/50 sooner."
- Remember that even back then Floyd mentioned that he wouldn't do 50/50. See above point!
- TAKE THE TEST AND WE HAVE A FIGHT! People who bought the T-Shirts should sue!!! lol!



50/50:
- Are you serious? There was the Testing roadblock at the time but when Manny said OK to testing, Floyd said no to 50/50 and put a NEW roadblock!


$40 million for Manny all PPV for Floyd:
- You agree it was wrong of Floyd. So you need to ask yourself why would he go to that extreme?


Roadblocks:
- Floyd fans said time after time, all Manny needs to do is bluff Floyd and if Floyd puts another roadblock then we know who doesn't want the fight. Well now, there have been several roadblocks/delays from Accusations, Drug testing, vacations, jail, money, .... all due to Floyd!!!!


Manny played hardball you say:
- When has Manny played hardball by asking Floyd to do something that would be considered a roadblock that was not created by Floyd?


Arum: I don't trust Arum and Floyd but I trust that Manny wants this fight due to his actions.
- Still you need to ask yourself, what were all the big roadblocks and who placed these roadbocks? Notice the pattern? The answer to that question is FLoyd NOT Arum!!!

Marquez & Cotto:
- May I remind you that even if negotiations were tough, Manny fought Marquez 4 times and Cotto once. Manny vs Floyd after 3 years ..... 0 fights!!! So your logic does not hold!


Manny giving in:
- Manny gave in to drug testing and taking less yet you say it's not because Manny wants the fight? YIKES!!! .... but for you, Floyd putting all those roadblocks is OK and that he wants the fight? Terrible logic on your part!


While I questioned it, I tried my best to say that it was all part of negotiations at first but once Floyd pulled the "I WANT ALL PPV MONEY" I now think that Floyd is not interested in this fight .... his 0 is way too precious to lose even though Floyd is the favourite. Floyd and company have been spooked since Hatton but when it really changed for them was when big Cotto lost badly to Manny. Just listen to Roger, Floyd Sr and Jr ... they said what Manny has done was incredible.

In life any person uses things as a stumbling block or a stepping stone. The person makes that decision on their own. Manny decided to make floyds requests stumbling blocks.

Like the 40 mil no ppv offer. As fans we can debate whether its good or bad. But let's be clear: manny is still getting a huge raise and even without ppv he will make more than he ever did with the bulk of ppv revenue.

So how manny sees the offer is on him. He decided it wasn't good. Fine. But that's the same decision he made when it was 50\50 and osdt. Manny turns every offer into a stumbling block on his own. Why does he do that? Imo because he doesn't want to fight.

Manny can choose how he sees the offers floyd has given him. But when he nakes the choice don't blame the constitution of the offer. That's not how adults do things.

[ADP02]

In life any person uses things as a stumbling block or a stepping stone. The person makes that decision on their own. Manny decided to make floyds requests stumbling blocks.

Like the 40 mil no ppv offer. As fans we can debate whether its good or bad. But let's be clear: manny is still getting a huge raise and even without ppv he will make more than he ever did with the bulk of ppv revenue.

So how manny sees the offer is on him. He decided it wasn't good. Fine. But that's the same decision he made when it was 50\50 and osdt. Manny turns every offer into a stumbling block on his own. Why does he do that? Imo because he doesn't want to fight.

Manny can choose how he sees the offers floyd has given him. But when he nakes the choice don't blame the constitution of the offer. That's not how adults do things.

Manny has always been the one to eventually give in but Floyd then puts a new roadblock. Why? You can't answer that because if you do then you would be admitting to the fact that Floyd appears to not want this fight.

You even questioned Floyd's offer of $40 million for Manny while Floyd gets ALL PPV money. Now you are blaming Manny for not accepting?

Even if it's more than what Manny has ever made that doesn't make the offer right. If Floyd would have accepted $50 million and that happens to be more than he ever made, does Floyd have to accept it? Would it be fair for Floyd? No! and you would be saying that in every thread, right? .... but for Manny it's fair? It's Manny that doesn't want the fight? Let's be real!

It's not Floyd nor Manny that was going to make this a mega-fight it was because they are facing each other. Like Costas said, there may be over $150 million on the table. Some have said it could have been $200 million. We really don't know but you can easily realize that from those numbers, Floyd would be getting more than he ever has but does he deserve that much more than Manny? Floyd can't be happy with a more reasonable split? Most importantly, with Floyd making so much money and saying no to it, is he that serious about wanting the fight? Manny is willing to give in and has said so every time ...

When can we here Floyd give in and be reasonable? That is when one will say, Floyd is serious ..... not when Floyd puts a new roadblock that we ALL KNOW THAT MANNY WOULD REFUSE ..... even Floyd knew that Manny would refuse .... so that is why everyone except die-hard Floyd fans are saying that Floyd doesn't want the fight!!!

[loui_ludwig]

Seriously, this fight is not gonn happen.

[The Big Dunn]

Manny has always been the one to eventually give in but Floyd then puts a new roadblock. Why? You can't answer that because if you do then you would be admitting to the fact that Floyd appears to not want this fight.

You even questioned Floyd's offer of $40 million for Manny while Floyd gets ALL PPV money. Now you are blaming Manny for not accepting?

Even if it's more than what Manny has ever made that doesn't make the offer right. If Floyd would have accepted $50 million and that happens to be more than he ever made, does Floyd have to accept it? Would it be fair for Floyd? No! and you would be saying that in every thread, right? .... but for Manny it's fair? It's Manny that doesn't want the fight? Let's be real!

It's not Floyd nor Manny that was going to make this a mega-fight it was because they are facing each other. Like Costas said, there may be over $150 million on the table. Some have said it could have been $200 million. We really don't know but you can easily realize that from those numbers, Floyd would be getting more than he ever has but does he deserve that much more than Manny? Floyd can't be happy with a more reasonable split? Most importantly, with Floyd making so much money and saying no to it, is he that serious about wanting the fight? Manny is willing to give in and has said so every time ...

When can we here Floyd give in and be reasonable? That is when one will say, Floyd is serious ..... not when Floyd puts a new roadblock that we ALL KNOW THAT MANNY WOULD REFUSE ..... even Floyd knew that Manny would refuse .... so that is why everyone except die-hard Floyd fans are saying that Floyd doesn't want the fight!!!

Your posts always talk about manny accepting but they never mention the time involved. You post as if manny is just been willing to do anything. That's far from the truth. Manny gives in because he is the smaller earner-same way people give in to manny who earn less than him.

Again 40 mil is fair for manny based on the way his deal is srtuctured. You act as if floyd and manny are equals. They are not. Manny is a tr employee and as such has financial responsibilities to them that to a degree limits or caps his earnings.

Floyd does deserve more than manny. He deserves more because he took the risk to create the contract he has . If the fight makes 200 nmil then hey floyd gets over just like odh did on floyd. Floyd still got paid. Manny will still get paid. But as I said before floyd and manny arte not equals. No matter what u say the most lucrative fight for anyone is a floyd fight.

Floyd has been reasonable in these negotiations. Every time he is manny makes excuses or acts like he can take his time and decide. Sorry but floyd isn't going to treat manny special. All manny is is another opponent for floyd to make money fighting. I know he is a hero to you. But he isn't.

Manny had the deal he wants now. He turned it down intially. Manny acted bigger than he is. So now he has said he will take less. Because of his earlier stance and the way he negotiates he's probably gonna have to take less to fight floyd. U say people blame floyd? Well his ppv sales since then suggest otherwise. Just because some manny diehards and floyd haters blame floyd doesn't make it so.

[al-Xander]

Basically, our friend Big Dunn says Manny needs to bow down to his idol and beg for the fight. Floyd doesn't need it. Floyd won't benefit from it. Big Dunn admits that the opportunity to beat the overrated Asian number one superstar is not enough motivation for Floyd to go for the fight, thus he's too scared to fight Manny without all these special privileges. Floyd would rather prefer to earn less and remain the laughing stock of the world for being a chicken... Time is running out for Floyd. Man, I'd be begging for the fight if I were Floyd and accept 70/30 (winner takes bigger split) at this point. When Floyd retires one and half year from now, all these special powers and arrogance he has would disappear. He'll be clowned, taunted, called a chicken, get booed, you name it... (I'll be looking forward to that soon... hehe..) Keep on ducking Floyd. Keep on making take it or leave it stances...

[The Big Dunn]

Basically, our friend Big Dunn says Manny needs to bow down to his idol and beg for the fight. Floyd doesn't need it. Floyd won't benefit from it. Big Dunn admits that the opportunity to beat the overrated Asian number one superstar is not enough motivation for Floyd to go for the fight, thus he's too scared to fight Manny without all these special privileges. Floyd would rather prefer to earn less and remain the laughing stock of the world for being a chicken... Time is running out for Floyd. Man, I'd be begging for the fight if I were Floyd and accept 70/30 (winner takes bigger split) at this point. When Floyd retires one and half year from now, all these special powers and arrogance he has would disappear. He'll be clowned, taunted, called a chicken, get booed, you name it... (I'll be looking forward to that soon... hehe..) Keep on ducking Floyd. Keep on making take it or leave it stances...

Wow what a way to spin the post. Manny didn't have to bow down. They negotiated a 50/50 deal which manny turned down rather belligerently. Then everytime floyd offered a compromise manny refused. So manny had leverage then and played hardball. Now floyd has leverage and is doing same. Stop *****ing about it. Because manny acted that way now he is getting treated that way. Same way manny and bob just played tough with cotto.

Because you and the others that worship manny or hate floyd call him things really doesn't matter. The public has spoken with their purchasing power. They prefer floyd fights. So you can continue your crusade to discredit him. I doubt it lowers his income or denies him entry into the HOF.

Of course you'd take 70/30. Because you are a nobody who worships manny. I sure hope they fight. But I'm not upset that floyd is making manny beg like a ***** like manny did to cotto. Serves him right for refusing 50/50 in the 1st place over a lil osdt for both fighters.

[WESS]

Wow what a way to spin the post. Manny didn't have to bow down. They negotiated a 50/50 deal which manny turned down rather belligerently. Then everytime floyd offered a compromise manny refused. So manny had leverage then and played hardball. Now floyd has leverage and is doing same. Stop *****ing about it. Because manny acted that way now he is getting treated that way. Same way manny and bob just played tough with cotto.

Because you and the others that worship manny or hate floyd call him things really doesn't matter. The public has spoken with their purchasing power. They prefer floyd fights. So you can continue your crusade to discredit him. I doubt it lowers his income or denies him entry into the HOF.

Of course you'd take 70/30. Because you are a nobody who worships manny. I sure hope they fight. But I'm not upset that floyd is making manny beg like a ***** like manny did to cotto. Serves him right for refusing 50/50 in the 1st place over a lil osdt for both fighters.

I remember when Mosley got down on his knees and begged Pac multiple times at multiple weights for a fight. It was sad that the WW Champion was ducked up until Floyd had fought him. I will ignore the Mora fight because I admire Manny so much that I don't want to discredit the fight more than the media and entire boxing community already does.

Like you mentioned, Cotto played manny's game and we all witnessed that Manny didn't compromise for Cotto's wishes now that he has left Arum. It was Pac’s way or the highway and well, Pac took the highway. I'm glad he did but then again a JMM fight is played out too. We all want a clean world but Pac’s recycling of fighters is just getting old. He can only recycle and or fight bums for so long. Again, being that I admire pac I will ignore the Bradley fight as I want to pretend he has not lost since Moralas.

However it's funny how certain simple fans (more like fraudulent fans) flip the entire script and blame other fighters for not agreeing to Manny's terms because Manny is the draw but ignore that Manny is not the bigger draw (nor is he a Champion in ANY weight class and has very little leverage if any after refusing a 50-50 offer years ago) when it comes to the arguable #1 P4P, #1 WW and #1 JMW Floyd Mayweather.

Pac dug himself in a hole and has realized this. Why do you think Pac's fighting in the court room (rather than a ring) issue is done with Floyd?

Like I said years ago, Bob won't allow Pac to fight Floyd until it is his last fight and by that time, they will take what they can get. Floyd will basically make them beg much like Mosley had to even though Pac said no.

Pac can only say NO to Floyd so many times... the first time was enough for me to notice who the real coward is... then again, I blame Bob Arum. Times running out, but again, nobody will force Bob to do something he does not want to do, not even lil ol Floyd.

[hugh grant]

Your posts always talk about manny accepting but they never mention the time involved. You post as if manny is just been willing to do anything. That's far from the truth. Manny gives in because he is the smaller earner-same way people give in to manny who earn less than him.

Again 40 mil is fair for manny based on the way his deal is srtuctured. You act as if floyd and manny are equals. They are not. .

No i think its more along the lines of people give in to Pac is cos Pac is the best fighter in the world and they want the chance to fight the best, just like Floyd should be doing more to try and get a fight with the FOTD.

The only reason Pac wants Floyd is cos the public want it and Pac likes to give the public what they want. Pac dont need Floyd at all.

Floyd has done nothing with his career for the last 5 years so he needs Pac.

[The Big Dunn]

No i think its more along the lines of people give in to Pac is cos Pac is the best fighter in the world and they want the chance to fight the best, just like Floyd should be doing more to try and get a fight with the FOTD.

The only reason Pac wants Floyd is cos the public want it and Pac likes to give the public what they want. Pac dont need Floyd at all.

Floyd has done nothing with his career for the last 5 years so he needs Pac.

Just like 23% of republicans falsely believe pres obama is not american you are one of the fringe birther level manny fans that believes what you posted. They have the facts but they'd rather belive lies because they just hate that a black man is running the show. That is the same thing you are doing. Just like they can't accept the truth niether can you. But its ok. The rest of us, even manny fans, know the truth and are laughing at you guys.