What's Worse: Pacquiao draining Cotto by 2 lbs, Or Ward draining Dawson by 7 lbs?

[CHOWWOKKA]

You were using this totally unrelated fight to take another swipe at Pac. As I said, clockwork. And then you complain I'm bringing in unrelated guys.

But Ward is certainly more relevant to this thread than Guerrero. And he just passed up an opportunity for a much more meaningful fight cause he was unwilling to move up to his second weightclass. Props to him for not doing a cw, but what do you think hurts Dawson more, 168 or 172?

I still haven't got one straight answer from you.

Wrong, I am showing examples of how fighters move up in weight without catchweight, Again YOU REPLIED TO ME, so what the **** do you want?

Did Ward call out Dawson for his LHW title at a catchweight or are you making **** up again?

[HeroBando]

Wrong, I am showing examples of how fighters move up in weight without catchweight, Again YOU REPLIED TO ME, so what the **** do you want?

Did Ward call out Dawson for his LHW title at a catchweight or are you making **** up again?

How do you go from "examples of fighters moving up", to "I guess Pacquiao is a pus5y.."? What was PWill for asking for a worse cw, answer still pending. But I'm sure you'll be proudly giving these examples in all kinds of unrelated threads.

I never said Ward called him out, but he could have had a very meaningful (and his toughest) fight at 175, and took the much less meaningful option at 168, where his opponent will likely be weight compromised. That's what unwillingness to go up in weight will get you. Or you get Barker and Macklin instead of Ward and Kessler for Martinez.

[Frank Ducketts]

Wrong, I am showing examples of how fighters move up in weight without catchweight, Again YOU REPLIED TO ME, so what the **** do you want?

Did Ward call out Dawson for his LHW title at a catchweight or are you making **** up again?

All you have to say is 168 is a legit weight to fight at and that Dawson and Ward are in their prime. Answering premature questions about a fight where weight was a factor, and where is wasn't...bottom line is we can only guess, and use our eyes. Just cut to the chase on cats like dat lol.

[Frank Ducketts]

Because the DLH fight did not make him a real welter, it was a sideshow. Consider that he moved up from 130 to 135-147-140 in 14 months, and in the process took hardly any punches. Why would he be confident in his ability to take a welters punch? He beat the odds on that. I know nobody would have guessed he'd be beating Cotto at 145 12 months earlier.

Here's what I know about Pacquiao. He never fought catchweight fights until he started weakening the big boys. 112-135 no catchweight fights. Great management.

Here's what I know about Floyd. He's never defended his titles at a catch weight.

Nothing is wrong with catchweight fights as long as fans don't suspect of seeing a guy weakening or weakened. Fans will know, but they won't ever know or truly understand.

Bottom line is it seems that fans think that Cotto was weakened. I did. Nothing personal towards Pacquiao who is a phenomenal fighter. Pacquiao gets over with the catchweight issue with me because he can fight. And imo at the time he fought them, catchweight or not I think Pacquiao beats them. Some Pacquiao fans won't acknowledge this as a.criticism of Pacquiao.

[HeroBando]

Here's what I know about Pacquiao. He never fought catchweight fights until he started weakening the big boys. 112-135 no catchweight fights. Great management.

Here's what I know about Floyd. He's never defended his titles at a catch weight.

Nothing is wrong with catchweight fights as long as fans don't suspect of seeing a guy weakening or weakened. Fans will know, but they won't ever know or truly understand.

Bottom line is it seems that fans think that Cotto was weakened. I did. Nothing personal towards Pacquiao who is a phenomenal fighter. Pacquiao gets over with the catchweight issue with me because he can fight. And imo at the time he fought them, catchweight or not I think Pacquiao beats them. Some Pacquiao fans won't acknowledge this as a.criticism of Pacquiao.

Oh ok, I'll just let you provide the eye test (or the "fan su****ion test"), you seem qualified and neutral. Cotto was drained in your opinion (not Bushbaby's, he failed to see this until the Marg fight), Dawson who knows.

But he's got a bigger hill to climb, big lhw, last at 168 7 years ago. Cotto weighed in 1lb heavier in the previous fight, and was a champ (via vacant belt) at 140. Why would a fan suspect 7lbs would be easier than 1, cause Dawson said so? Didn't DLH say he was in great shape for Pac? Why leave it to chance anyway, why not go for Dawson's lineal, a guaranteed tough fight, and all the extra prestige?

Btw, Cotto must have been massively drained vs Pac to be out of the fight by round 5. Do you figure his 6 round footrace to get away from Pac might have reached the finish line without the massive drain?

[HeroBando]

All you have to say is 168 is a legit weight to fight at and that Dawson and Ward are in their prime. Answering premature questions about a fight where weight was a factor, and where is wasn't...bottom line is we can only guess, and use our eyes. Just cut to the chase on cats like dat lol.

Quality coaching, did you come up with this cunning tactic?

[noStylez]

I don't think Cotto was drained at all, he looks chubby at 154 sure he won at that weight until Floyd beat his ass. The competition he fought at 154 ain't anything special.

If anything the reason why Cotto got his ass taxed against Pac was because his choice of trainer or lack of trainer, and Cotto thinking he could bully Pac. The result wouldn't be any different though, style match up is horrible for Cotto against Pac at any weight.

[BennyST]

168 is a weight limit for super middleweight. 161-168 is a weight class

Have you ever seen a super middleweight disqualified for coming in at 165?

Yes, that's right. 161-168....168 being the imperative number here. Not 166 or 165, 168. If you come in just through training at a lower weight, that's fine, but being made to come in at a lower weight than the division limit for your own titles? That's pretty ****ed.

Still not as bad as Ray Leonard winning the 175 title at 168 though.

[Sttag]

I don't think Cotto was drained at all, he looks chubby at 154 sure he won at that weight until Floyd beat his ass. The competition he fought at 154 ain't anything special.

If anything the reason why Cotto got his ass taxed against Pac was because his choice of trainer or lack of trainer, and Cotto thinking he could bully Pac. The result wouldn't be any different though, style match up is horrible for Cotto against Pac at any weight.

I think Cotto has the skills to outbox Pac if he had tried it. He's bigger, has more reach and enough skill to fight from the outside. And now that he knows how to clinch and pivot it's fair game. He fought like a masterderp in the first one and then ran like a B since he got caught with one he didn't see while standing in front of him.

I sincerely think he thought he'd bully Pac 'cause he's bigger and lol no. I know I'm in the minority but whatevs.

[Bushbaby]

Alright, I'm tired of rehashing this with you, you don't care to be consistent so we're not getting anywhere.

Just one last question for you, hope you don't duck this one like the others. Where did you have PWill p4p right before his attempt at the lineal belt at 157? How about Pac at the time, p4p?

I'm very consistent. You're not. You go around trying to $h!t on every fighter who's asked for or fought at a catchweight then come at me like catchweights are my biggest problem with Pacman, they aren't. When you get that through your thick skull, then we can talk.