Prime James Toney vs Andre Ward @168

[timboslice708]

the more i mow over this match-up, i can't help but think that if i were to create a fighter that would perfectly counter Ward's style, it'd be James Toney lol.

Let that be a testament to Ward's greatness as much as Toney's though, cuz fighters like Toney come once in a lifetime.

Completely agree. Toney would eventually catch Ward coming in. Or carve him up on the inside.

[Tmann400]

Actually, the more I think about this match up. The more I realize that if there was a fighter who could compete with Toney on the inside, it'd BE, Andre Ward. Toney DOES punch harder, but that's purely irrelevant if Toney can't catch Ward consistently. Ward is a magician at taking steam off of punches and just outright neutralizing a guys best punches. Toney would badly struggle to find Ward because Ward wouldn't fall for Toney's traps. I'm actually surprised at how many people are aimlessly taking Toney on this one. And, that's coming from a longtime lights out fan.

[timboslice708]

Actually, the more I think about this match up. The more I realize that if there was a fighter who could compete with Toney on the inside, it'd BE, Andre Ward. Toney DOES punch harder, but that's purely irrelevant if Toney can't catch Ward consistently. Ward is a magician at taking steam off of punches and just outright neutralizing a guys best punches. Toney would badly struggle to find Ward because Ward wouldn't fall for Toney's traps. I'm actually surprised at how many people are aimlessly taking Toney on this one. And, that's coming from a longtime lights out fan.

Andre Ward's inside game is holding, then hitting. Get outta here with that non sense. Ward is a master class boxer, but Toney would hurt him, if they played the inside game. Ward's best chance is to box on the outside.

[MalikKnucklez]

I think Ward's skill level, timing, the angles he comes from, chameleon-like versatility, and talent would at the very least make this fight very close, if not, Ward pulls out a 115-113 116-112 kind of win. That's coming from a LONGTIME Toney fan. Toney struggled badly with "boxers" like Ward. Guys who played the angles, who had elite boxing skills, who could give you different looks.

I agree and disagree with you, T.

Ward style sometimes makes for a very, very deceptive evaluation of his skills & strengths. Actually, if there is a contemporary boxer i can compare him to, stylistically, i'd say the guy he is facing, Chad Dawson.

They are what I call the "Pretty Ugly" dudes.

This is what i mean;
both Chad & Andre, when u look at them on the surface, are prototypical boxers, like you mentioned. They give u the angles, exceptional footwork, utilize their jab, have above-average speed...and they give the impression of the type of fighter who's built to cleanly outpoint.

But if u review all of their fights, BOTH of them are at their best when they decide to get "ugly". By "ugly" i mean activity/inside game as well as a fair share of sloppy holding, grabbing, and outsmarting. At mid & close range is where Chad & Dre have made the biggest impression in Rounds in virtually all of their world class fights. Working on the mid-range to the inside with clean combinations and bad intentions. Case in point, both fighter's have one of their strongest punches in the their Uppercuts. U consistently hear Chad get criticized for not showing this "side" more, because clearly it's a flash of when he is at his best. The same with Ward. A lot of folks thought he was gonna get on his bike against Froch, who many people thought would be the bigger puncher. Ward barely fought that fight on his backfoot, and stood right in the pocket with Froch for the majority of it.

It's never a "brawl" or high-intensity scrap with them, but it's one where they choose their spots of when and how to do so. They are pretty boxers who get ugly. Folks use to have the same misconceptions about De LaHoya coming up.

One thing that i do agree with you on is that it would be a difficult fight for Toney. A fight with Ward will always be, regardless of who he's facing. But if Ward was to win that fight against Toney, working on the outside just simply wouldn't be enough, no matter how big of a "headache" he might give Toney in the process.

[Light_Speed]

One thing about Ward he's a bit stiff, almost robotic sometimes. You can see him think in the ring and switch from move A to move B to move C. He's more cerebral than athletic while Toney was just a natural fighter, he was all instinct.

[MalikKnucklez]

One thing about Ward he's a bit stiff, almost robotic sometimes. You can see him think in the ring and switch from move A to move B to move C. He's more cerebral than athletic while Toney was just a natural fighter, he was all instinct.

Great point.

[timboslice708]

One thing about Ward he's a bit stiff, almost robotic sometimes. You can see him think in the ring and switch from move A to move B to move C. He's more cerebral than athletic while Toney was just a natural fighter, he was all instinct.

Excellent point. I was thinking that, but didnt know how to explain how much better Toney was than Ward. Toney was born to fight, where as Ward was trained to fight.

[713832281]

agree!

Toney would whip his ass all over the ring, while talking **** to him.

[Alx.]

i'm with toney on this

[UnicornGirl]

Andre Ward's not even prime yet, give him another 2 years and 4-5 fights and then we'll see.

As of right now, obviously Prime Toney by a boring UD