If RJJ retired AFTER fighting Ruiz, would he have gone down as a TOP 5 ATG?

[Roman Moreno]

i don't really get why people discredit roy's resume. middleweight to heavyweight is quite an accomplish. hopkins and toney are hall of famers. he beat many other good fighters and not just beat but dominated.

It depends what people consider as discredit. Saying he isn't the GOAT at LHW. Isn't a discredit. Saying his resume isn't as good to be ranked in the top 10 ATG isn't a discredit. Saying he is pretty good H2H. That he ranks up there H2H is not enough for some. Some want to hear top 10 ATG but he really wasn't though. Even if he would have retired after the Ruiz he wouldn't have deserved to be ranked in the top 10. But, that's not discrediting him. Saying that Michael Spinks could have beaten him at 175 is not a discredit either. Spinks is no chump, top 5 ATG at 175.

i love roberto duran. i would put him toward the very top of the all time list. but if you wanted to nitpick, you can say that leonard was really the only true great fighter he beat. davey moore was not any better than montell griffin. iran barkley was not any better than virgil hill.

Remember more importantly than who is when.

roy's resume is outstanding.

It is outstanding. i think he is easily top 50. Maybe even top 30. I can see it. That's how outstanding his resume is. But, some might take that as discredit because they don't understand how deep the history of boxing is.

[BoxingGenius27]

H2H he is up there. But, there is no H2H GOAT.

According to who? You?

When did you make up this rule?

Last time I checked, there weren't stipulations on how someone could make their H2H Greatest fighter of all time list.

[Always]

According to who? You?

When did you make up this rule?

Last time I checked, there weren't stipulations on how someone could make their H2H Greatest fighter of all time.

I told you bro, just stop feeding the troll.

His word is the Bible...blah blah blah.

[Always]

Completely dominated 2 future of hall of Famers (Hopkins, Toney).


Scored a 1 round Ko over undefeated Light Heavyweight champion Montell Griffin who defeated James Toney twice.

Koed 2 time light heavyweight champ Virgil Hill in 4 rounds with a body shot.


Beat 2 other title holders decisively. Was undefeated for 10 years.

His resume is good enough...

JRo says that isnt good enough.

Case Closed.

[Roman Moreno]

I know what you're getting at and it's not fair to Roy.

You want me to be some historian and go back 120 years while comparing Roy to the millions of fighters that have fought over the years.

That's not fair to Roy because he was the greatest fighter of all time, it's not his fault that he couldn't go back 60 years and knock dudes out that gave your ATG's their names.

It's not fair to Roy that he couldn't do that; which is why I call him the GOAT as a fighter head to head.

Essentially if the most complete fighter to ever step inside the ring fights from the years 2060-2085, but has no dance partners then I guess he's going to rank Top 150 of all time?

God forbid he destroys all of his opposition; he screwed. He'll never get any respect.

Whe would you rank Ricardo Lopez then? If Roy is the GOAT? Where is Finito? It's not his fault he was born a midget, he destroyed damn near everyone he fight and only had 2 competitive fights at the tail end of his career. Never suffered a lost, was so good, that he makes JMM a poorman version of him. One of the if not the most perfect fundamentally skilled technician of the 90's. Is he the GOAT as well because it's not his fault that he was soooo small?

BoxingGenius, stop arguing with Roman Moreno aka JRosales. He flip flops, and tries to be some "My opinion is fact" kinda douche.

Leave him alone. Today he is playing the devils advocate, next he will be swinging by any piece of pube he can get his hand on.

JRo is the Mitt Romney of BoxingScene.

That's right

Dude, seriously, I say in the most sincere way possible, PLEASE STFU.

You sound so ****ing dumb.

Do you realize how ****** the bold part is?

Nope, tell me more.

[Roman Moreno]

According to who? You?

When did you make up this rule?

Last time I checked, there weren't stipulations on how someone could make their H2H Greatest fighter of all time list.

Because, how can you have it with so many weight-classes?

Wilfredo Gomez vs Ricardo Lopez who's greater H2H?

Carlos Monzon vs Lennox Lewis who's greater H2H?

H2H Lewis would beat Roy. Would he not?

I'm sorry if I'm coming off as an ignorant idiot. But, help me understand what you're trying to mean.

[-Kev-]

he is a great talent yes one of the best ever has some good wins

toney
hopkis
ruiz
hill
tarver


but top 5??

Lol at the people you mentioned for Roy. Roy's resume is so underrated it's sad.

Hopkins, Toney, Tarver, McCallum, Gonzalez, Ruiz, Woods, Hill, Griffin, Harding, Trinidad, Del Valle, [Reggie] Johnson, Grant.

And if Mosley and Margarito are mentioned for Pacquiao, then what the hell, i'll name Tito Trinidad for Roy Jones.

Roy Jones Jr's record against undefeated fighters is an impressive 8-1, with his lone loss coming in 2008 against Calzaghe, obviously way past it. If you want to count the BS DQ loss to Griffin then Jones is 8-2. But has basically lost to only 1 of 9 undefeated fighters he faced. That's very, very, very impressive. Sure you got Brannon[a guy hyped up by Merchant as a legit challenger], Hanshaw, Kelly and Thomas in there. But you also have Toney, Gonzalez, Harding, and Griffin. Even seemingly unbeatable fighters, couldn't beat Jones.

You also had guys coming in with all sorts of win streaks, that stopped with Roy Jones, and the win streaks continued after Roy Jones beat them. Which shows just how ****** that "Roy fought bums and cherrypicked" comment is.

When Jones beat Tarver, Tarver had lost one fight, to Harding, a guy Roy had already defeated. Tarver had not lost in 3 years before he was defeated by a weight drained Jones in a good close fight. And you didn't even mention Harding.

After Jones beat the undefeated Gonzalez, Gonzalez posted up a 9 fight winning streak, including wins over Glen Johnson and Dariusz...you know who. Again, you didn't mention Gonzalez, despite that being a great win.

McCallum, another guy you didn't mention. His record entering the fight speaks for it self. 49-3. The fight was legit. It was a veteran vs a the youngster type of fight. McCallum ended his career with 5 losses, never getting stopped. And if you want to say McCallum was past his best against Jones, look at McCallum's 3rd very close fight with Toney, A YEAR AFTER Jones had soundly shut McCallum out. Some people may have scored it for McCallum. Go check the fight out on youtube, it's a very good fight and it was McCallum's last fight. Toney has clearly said, that the 1997 fight with McCallum was the toughest fight of his career.

[Roman Moreno]

Completely dominated 2 future of hall of Famers (Hopkins, Toney).


Scored a 1 round Ko over undefeated Light Heavyweight champion Montell Griffin who defeated James Toney twice.

Koed 2 time light heavyweight champ Virgil Hill in 4 rounds with a body shot.


Beat 2 other title holders decisively. Was undefeated for 10 years.

His resume is good enough...

His resume is not good enough to be in the top 10. Again outstanding resume...Fighters in teh top 10 have even a greater resume. Ali is borderline top 10 ATG. And, Roy resume is not greater than Ali. But, that's not a knock on Roy. It's not a knock like the sensitive Htown being the female that she is wants to make it out to be.

You can still have an outstanding great resume and still not be top 20 let alone top 10. And, that isn't a knock. Boxing didn't start in 1980. It has over a 100 years of history. That's a lot of fighters. There is no shame not being considered top 10 let alone top 5.

[Always]

Whe would you rank Ricardo Lopez then? If Roy is the GOAT? Where is Finito? It's not his fault he was born a midget, he destroyed damn near everyone he fight and only had 2 competitive fights at the tail end of his career. Never suffered a lost, was so good, that he makes JMM a poorman version of him. One of the if not the most perfect fundamentally skilled technician of the 90's. Is he the GOAT as well because it's not his fault that he was soooo small?



That's right



Nope, tell me more.

No you ****ing idiot. I am probably the biggest Lopez fan you will find, and he can not be the GOAT because he refused to go up in weight when he had already DOMINATED a weight division for YEARS.

He didnt go up in weight when there were 2 fighters that MAYBE could have given him problems, Michael Carbajal and Chiquita Gonzales.

Please, just STFU.

[Mr. Invincible]

Roy is top ten to me anyways, but if he had retired after that one or the first Tarver fight, he would be to everyone else as well.

I personally don't think anyone could have beaten him in his prime between 160 and 175 lbs.

He was the best I've ever seen do it when he was on and the eye test showed all I needed to see.