Why are So MANY people Picking Lee to BEAT Chavez?

[mushahadeen]

Chavez has been boxing for 10 years

Martinez has been boxing for 17 years.


at the 10 year mark, in both of their career, Chavez is light years ahead of Martinez, resume wise.

Sorry but that "he started boxing late" crap isn't gonna fly with me.

But...but...but he was playing soccer!!!! And cycling!!!!

Wahhhh wahhh don't say anything bad about Sergio wahhhhhhhh!!!

[4Corners]

I'm not. If Brian Vera could wear him down and stop him, and if Craig McEwan gave him all he could handle for awhile in that fight, I think Julio can take him. It's a very good fight, but one Julio will win. Andy will have to have the best fight of his life so far to win.

I see the fight being competitive through 7-8 rounds, probably around even on the cards, and Julio will wind up wearing him down, and stopping him in the 9th or 10th round.

Andy has to thoroughly out box Julio all night, and clearly win the majority of the rounds to get the decision. If Julio has his moments, even if Lee out lands him and controls most of the round, the round will probably go to Julio.

I got Chavez by 9th round TKO. The cards will probably be 5-3/4-4 at the time of stoppage.

[Khalid X]

Your entire argument is kind of moot to be honest. You say that Martinez only has one or two good wins and that the rest of his wins are not better than Chavez's, which is fine except that Martinez is ranked much, much higher than Julio is. Why is this the case if their victories are on the same level?

At age 20, Martinez had yet to even set foot in a boxing ring....at age 20, Julio had been boxing for 7 years. If Chavez jr is so much better than Martinez and his career is "off to a much better start than Martinez's" when he was Julio's age, why is not held in the same regard as Martinez considering he has been boxing for about 7 years longer than Martinez?

You are talking about when they turned pro, Chavez grew up in a boxing family and his dad was the most famous Mexican boxer of all time, that kid was wearing gloves before he was 10.

Because P4P is based off of success in recent years (at most the past 3 years).

His wins over Pavlik and Williams is the reason he is p4p top 3. You take those away and It hard to imagine that he would even be in the top 10.

Again you stated "If Chavez is so much better"....when I never stated that.

I did state that, 10 years from the time they started boxing, Chavez is a lot further, resume wise, than Martinez. That's not even debatable. hell you can even do 13 years in and Chavez resume is still better than Martinez resume.

Is Martinez a great fighter? I have him p4p number #3, but my point is that up until recently, his resume was no better than Chavez. In fact some of his recent wins (minus Williams and Pavlik) aren't a helluva lot better than Chavez.

[.:: JSFD26 ::.]

4 KO win streak against bigger guys and younger than him while Jr is winning decisions over smaller guys than him.

[mathed]

Because P4P is based off of success in recent years (at most the past 3 years).

His wins over Pavlik and Williams is what has him at p4p top 3. You take those away and It hard to imagine that he would even be in the top 10.

Again you stated "If Chavez is so much better"....when I never stated that.

I did state that, 10 years from the time they started boxing, Chavez is a lot further, resume wise, than Martinez. That's not even debatable.

Is Martinez a great fighter? I have him p4p number #3, but my point is that up until recently, his resume was no better than Chavez. In fact some of his recent wins (minus Williams and Pavlik) aren't a helluva lot better than Chavez.

I guess man but you are forgetting to mention that Martinez won a title, moved up in weight, won the lineal MW title and has been KO'ing BIGGER guys. Chavez is killing himself to make a weight that will give him a 15 pound weight advantage over smaller dudes...this has a lot to do with Martinez being ranked so high.

The main difference between the two is Martinez is beating guys that he wasn't meant to beat, he was brought on by HBO to be a guy with a good record who could make their staple fighters look impressive while beating him. He upset the apple cart and is now the staple fighter; Chavez is the guy who is supposed to win in his fights but has been carried by certain parties because of who his dad was.

I'd be willing to bet money that if you put any of the opponents from Chavez's best victories in with any of Martinez's past 5 opponents, they would all lose.

[4Corners]

I guess man but you are forgetting to mention that Martinez won a title, moved up in weight, won the lineal MW title and has been KO'ing BIGGER guys. Chavez is killing himself to make a weight that will give him a 15 pound weight advantage over smaller dudes...this has a lot to do with Martinez being ranked so high.

The main difference between the two is Martinez is beating guys that he wasn't meant to beat, he was brought on by HBO to be a guy with a good record who could make their staple fighters look impressive while beating him. He upset the apple cart and is now the staple fighter; Chavez is the guy who is supposed to win in his fights but has been carried by certain parties because of who his dad was.

I'd be willing to bet money that if you put any of the opponents from Chavez's best victories in with any of Martinez's past 5 opponents, they would all lose.

LamarSmith is the same guy that said Derrick Gainer wasn't a good win for Corrales in 00' and that Gainer was done at that point, even though he hadn't lost in 4 years, was a Top 10 SFW, and would go on to beat Norwood and Polo after losing to Corrales. He's also the same guy that said the only thing Manfredy ever did was beat that "bum" Julio Diaz, even though Manfredy also beat Arturo Gatti in his prime.

Take what he says with a grain of salt.

[jmt225]

Nobody really knows yet if Chavez is legit or not. This fight against Lee is his first real test, and it will tell us a lot about him. So, it's not surprising that some people haven't bought into the Chavez hype yet and don't believe he's ready for the next level of competition.

Personally, I think as long as Chavez is able to make it to a decision, he'll win the fight since it's in El Paso. But I don't see the fight being one-sided either way... it'll definitely be close. I'm really looking forward to it.

[mushahadeen]

Nobody really knows yet if Chavez is legit or not. .

Only casual fans think that.

[Khalid X]

I guess man but you are forgetting to mention that Martinez won a title, moved up in weight, won the lineal MW title and has been KO'ing BIGGER guys. Chavez is killing himself to make a weight that will give him a 15 pound weight advantage over smaller dudes...this has a lot to do with Martinez being ranked so high.

The main difference between the two is Martinez is beating guys that he wasn't meant to beat, he was brought on by HBO to be a guy with a good record who could make their staple fighters look impressive while beating him. He upset the apple cart and is now the staple fighter; Chavez is the guy who is supposed to win in his fights but has been carried by certain parties because of who his dad was.

I'd be willing to bet money that if you put any of the opponents from Chavez's best victories in with any of Martinez's past 5 opponents, they would all lose.

Which is pretty much why he is ranked p4p #3. You basically stated what I said. However I'm not talking about those victories.....I just stated that wins over Dzin (due to the circumstance), Barker, Macklin aren't a helluva lot better than wins over Rubio, Manfredo, Zbik.

If I had to chose, as stated prior, I would say Martinez wins over those guys are better......however not a helluva lot better.

And if we are talking about pre-Williams....for the most part Martinez resume is horrendous and full of bums.

Again, not trying to discredit him....just saying he has no room to talk about cherry picking, fighting bums, or being protected by a promoter.

[Khalid X]

LamarSmith is the same guy that said Derrick Gainer wasn't a good win for Corrales in 00' and that Gainer was done at that point, even though he hadn't lost in 4 years, was a Top 10 SFW, and would go on to beat Norwood and Polo after losing to Corrales. He's also the same guy that said the only thing Manfredy ever did was beat that "bum" Julio Diaz, even though Manfredy also beat Arturo Gatti in his prime.

Take what he says with a grain of salt.

Please tell me who Gainer fought in those four years.....I'll be waiting.

Like I said, Gainer is similar to judah in the fact that he is talented as hell, but due to his laziness, lack of discipline, etc, for the most part he is considered a waste of talent.

I was a fan of his back then, so I'm speaking from the perspective of someone who followed the guy closely then. I don't see how beating Gainer at 130lb equates to a good win....just like if someone were to beat Judah at this point.