Prime Hall of Fame fighters in Floyd resume?

[Brother Jay]

Wha? Barrera beat Hamed, Tapia, Morales twice, Kelly, Juarez, Mckinney

Dude .. the names you listed were NOT world class fighters at the time when Barrera beat them.

Are you seriously considering Hamed, Tapia and Kelly as WORLD CLASS fighters at the time when Barrera beat them?

Hames .. who had only looked spectacular against Euro bums.

Tapia who was a coked out when he fought Barrera.

And Kelly who was washed up in 1997 against Hamed .. & 2 months shy of 37 years old in his fight against Barrera!

Barrera lost EVERY SINGLE TIME he stepped up to the world stage.

The only man who ever saw the WORLD STAGE that Barrera beat was Morales.

Morales? Lost 1, won 2
Pacquiao? Lost
JMM? Lost
Khan? Lost

Don't confuse great fights with him fighting world class competition. They are not the same things.

Morales, Pacquiao, JMM and Khan are THEE ONLY WORLD CLASS fighters that Barrera has EVER faced.

Sad part is that Barrera has lost to competition that was not even world class in Junior Jones ... TWICE.

You can love the guy and admire the fights he's given us, but don't for a minute attempt to make his career out to be more than it was. Great fights are NOT the measure of whether a career is HOF or ATG.

It comes down to the rank of the competition when they fought and the condition of the competition(coming off a loss, passed prime, wasn't a proven commodity since a KO, etc).

[Brother Jay]

listen, hatton vs manny's resume even with the win over zoo, which was a good win AT BEST b/c of reasons I mentioned before is not even a subject of discussion. hattons resume is garbage and i dont expect to have to dissect the zoo win

Oh no .. we agree that Hatton's resume is garbage. However I was pointing out that you said if Cotto somehow beats Mayweather .. Cotto is in the HOF.

You can't say that about Cotto and not say the same about Hatton. Tszyu is not only a HOF'er but he's an ATG. Hatton's win over him was tremendous. And quite frankly, Cotto's resume isn't much better than Hatton's.

At least Hatton beat a champion to be a top player. Cotto didn't beat a champion in ANY weight class until he fought and beat Yuri Foreman.

If we are going to keep it real, then let's keep it really real.

as far as the first bold, we can't get anywhere as long as you actually believe that barrera and morales' only notable wins are barrera over morales and morales over pac.

No no no ... you don't get off that easy. You have to name someone WORLD CLASS OTHER THAN MORALES that Barrera ever beat! Don't make it seem like I'm throwing some unfounded notion out there.

My cards are on the table. I've evidenced my position. If you're going to back away from that point without presenting FACTS to evidence why you feel that my argument is flawed, then you're trying to find a way to gracefully bow out.

Show me the money.

anyway, I think pac and floyd sealed their HOF credentials before they got to 140-147.

Now I agree with you concerning Floyd as Floyd has consistently fought the #1, #2 and #3 fighters in every division he's competed in. This is a FACT.

Please enlighten me as to who Pacquiao defeated PRIOR to 140-147 that would seal his HOF credentials.

This is not an argument. This is a request for you to show me what I have missed.

and i think jmm-pac 1 was a draw and pac won the second fight and that one's not arguable IMO. Manny was clearly outboxed in the first fight after the second round. not so in the second fight at all. they fought on even terms and manny dropped him. so that's another hof type win vs a prime fighter at his best weight. the third, was blown out of proportion, jmm didn't do enough and I gave it to manny, but i can see a 1-2 point win for either guy.

We will agree to disagree here and I'm fine with that simply because the majority of the boxing world saw what I saw. Most thought the second fight was more convincing than the first in favor of JMM .. and the third according to writers, pundits, fans and commentators was a clear win for JMM.

When Amir Khan tells the world live on SKY Network that Pacquiao has clearly lost, there is nothing left that I have to say. Khan, as Pacquiao's stablemate, had every reason to be bias. He called it straight and rescinded later on due to politics.

manny has basically been bullshi ttin since he fought over 140 and floyd has been bullshi tting since 140. as far as the second bold, i agree except i give pac some credit for the cotto win.

Oh he has been bullshitting BIG TIME.

And you can give him credit for whatever you like, but championships are not won at catchweights .. and YOUR opinion doesn't change that one bit. So yeah .. Manny beat Cotto, but he had to use a swelterweight to do it and never looked for Cotto until Margarito basically jailhouse raped Miguel.

morales, barrera and jmm=enough to be an atg. morales is a badass mofo period. i think all those wins trump all floyd's wins except maybe castillo x 2.

That's because you're using your heart and not your intellect, Walt. In order to accurately assess the value of a win, you must factor in the rank of the opponent and the condition.

Morales had just lost to Raheem by a blowout margin. And regardless of how "badass" you think Morales is, he NEVER looked to avenge that loss. Raheem was the logical choice of opponent because he made "badass" Morales look like lukewarm shit for 12 rounds and did it easily.

Did you see that fight? It was a clinic that Raheem never put on again in his career.

Barrera is a solid win, but the way some of you exaggerate that man's accomplishments is insane. I just don't understand why many of you REFUSE to look at his list of opposition and see that he's only faced 4 WORLD CLASS fighters and lost to all of them, and avenged his loss against ONLY one, which was Morales.

floyd and manny stroll striaght in to the hof......as far as atg status goes, I have them VERY close at this point because of how lame their last couple of years have been.

The fact that you could have them close is IMO disingenuous.

Floyd fights the #1's and #2's. While Pacquiao has fought since Diaz #5's and one #4 who was Cotto after he won a vacant paper title against Jennings and a dirty scrap against Clottey.

How is 1st, 2nd and 3rd the same as 5th?

Obviously rank has absolutely no place in your mind when calculating who has done what .. and therefore, while I respect your right to an opinion, I cannot respect your opinion on the matter itself because you have a complete disregard for the single most important factor when weighing the value of a win:

Rank!!!!

After rank one MUST consider the condition of the opponent!

If you were to honestly apply those two factors toward evaluating both Barrera and Pacquiao, there would be no difference in opinion between us.

The difference between you and I is that I am a slave to that standard. While you are a slave to your own opinion.

they no longer challenge themselves and I dont respect that as far as atg status goes. manny in particular has lost a LOT of the shine I thought he earned

I will agree that Floyd is not as active as most would like him to be. I'm not going to lie for the guy. He fights once a year and as the best fighter of this era we would like to see more of him!

However, Floyd accomplished everything he set out to do years ago. Once he defeated DLH, he had done just about everything he said he would do. He kept his word the whole way through. Hatton, JMM, Mosley and Ortiz are just bonus footage from the champ. In 2007 Floyd had already beaten the best at WW and then beat DLH at jrMW. There was nothing left to do.

Yet every time a new crop of fighters emerge, you and fans like you pretend that he's supposed to run down 85 flights of stairs to meet these new guys at street level and CHASE THEM around town. And if he doesn't .. in some minds that equates to DUCKING.

As far as Pacquiao goes, from JMM 2008 to JMM 2011 he has used vacant titles, catchweights and even had Arum get a banned cheater to stand up at 154lbs during his ban so that he could later lay down for Manny's crusade for an 8th division paper title.

And whether you like it or not, there will always be an asterisk next to the name of a fighter that refused better testing. Especially when the stakes were as high as they are and other fighters have all agreed to take it.

Floyd may fight once a year, but he isn't draining fighters. Floyd isn't looking to sidestep champions by competing for vacant titles. Floyd lets his opponents fight at weights where they are most comfortable at. But most of all ..

FLOYD FIGHTS THE #1, #2 & #3 FIGHTERS IN BOXING WHEREVER HE'S AT.

If we aren't speaking about facts & figures, then I guess its all up to interpretation, huh?

[4Corners]

Sorry Brother Jay, I don't think Kostya Tszyu is an ATG.

He's in the same boat with Jose Luis Castillo, Diego Corrales, and Genaro Hernandez to me. Probably a HOF fighter one day, but not quite an ATG. ATG to me is Top 100. HOF is a different story. Miguel Cotto will probably get into the HOF, but right now he's not an ATG.

[Roman Moreno]

LMAO at Kostya Tzsyu being an ATG. And, also Hatton and Cotto resume being similar.



This guy Brother Jay writes a wall of text to try and hide the stupidity of his post.

[ADP02]

Unless we see things change, Floyd is going to look back and wished he did things differently.

but using his own words, things are not going to change and may actually go downhill .... "I'm getting older and will not fight champs ...... "

[punchville]

none really.

[4Corners]

Unless we see things change, Floyd is going to look back and wished he did things differently.

but using his own words, things are not going to change and may actually go downhill .... "I'm getting older and will not fight champs ...... "

You can say that about almost any fighter. Floyd is a HOF and an ATG. I'm just happy to have seen him fight and seem him beat all the good fighters he did. He still has options left. He says he wants to fight 5 more times after Cotto. There's plenty of fights there depending on how each fighter does the next year or two.

[silentscoper]

Unless we see things change, Floyd is going to look back and wished he did things differently.

but using his own words, things are not going to change and may actually go downhill .... "I'm getting older and will not fight champs ...... "

Thats a misquote if I ever saw one.

[ADP02]

You can say that about almost any fighter. Floyd is a HOF and an ATG. I'm just happy to have seen him fight and seem him beat all the good fighters he did. He still has options left. He says he wants to fight 5 more times after Cotto. There's plenty of fights there depending on how each fighter does the next year or two.

I've been saying this for several years now that he should pick it up but it's like he doesn't care .... he even says it now more often. So it's not like there is anything to defend when someone like myself says that about Floyd.


You can't say that about any fighter ..... sure they may have not had a fight with everyone but people would question those who would say that Ali was a ducker because he didn't fight everyone .... especially after taking on a Liston and a Foreman.

Ali would call you out and it would be for real. He would even come chasing you around ..... Floyd calls you out but then retreats from that statement.
Example: "Manny you are NEXT!" .... but then we get "I never said Manny was next"

[ADP02]

Thats a misquote if I ever saw one.

You may be right because I went by memory but if I put down the exact quote, it's not looking any prettier for Floyd, I can tell you that!

Nor his statement about "Self-preservation"!