recent- Andre Ward and Bernard Hopkins Fans:

[daggum]

You have to be fans of Molina now right!? That display of punch(ing) and immediately clinching and throwing pit pat shots must have been a breath of fresh air for you who have been jones'ing for it.

what punching? he was just holding without throwing or doing anything the first 2 minutes and 30 seconds of every round.

[turbotime]

what punching? he was just holding without throwing or doing anything the first 2 minutes and 30 seconds of every round.

That's why the plural form is in brackets.

[ShoulderRoll]

When they do it, its "skill"

When the Klitschkos do it they're "the greatest heavyweights of all time."

[_original_]

I really hate clinching man, it just sucks the life out of fights.

Just watch the fluidity and pace that took place in the Morales-Garcia fight, where there was very little clinching happening, and compare it to the clinchfest of Kirkland-Molina. IT was a good strategy by Molina, especially since the dumbass ref didn't do jack about it, but it really stunk the fight out.

[kiaba360]

Ward/Froch didn't have as much holding, and Ward was actively working within the clinch. Molina's holding was ****in excessive, and he would initiate them out of the blue. That **** gave me a tremendous headache. I didn't mind it for like the first 3-4 rounds, but it got annoying real quick. Kirkland/Molina is not a fight I want to see again.

[FeFist]

Whilst threads like this are annoying it offers insight on who to place on my **** list.

[Roman Moreno]

As a fan of Hopkins and Ward, I actually did enjoy it. I'm not sure how that is a diss. It's a different kind of holding compared to what Ruiz and Berto does.

This is true, I agree with this.

[warp1432]

This is true, I agree with this.

Personally, I think the second kind (Berto/Ruiz) is much worse and shouldn't be allowed. The kind Hopkins/Ward/Molina does is used to throw off a rhythm and is much more of a tactic.

Plus the other three aren't "dependent" on clinching. It sounds weird since it happens often in their fights, but they can be completely successful without it. Molina had his best moments tonight where he just was blasting Kirkland back without holding him up. I think it was round six where Kirkland was coming on and Molina put him back in his place.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Difference is Ward and Hopkins are versatile and can fight from all areas, which means they don't have to resort to running the clock, avoiding all contact by spoiling, then solely looking to get their punches off after the ref separated them off a clinch they initiated. That's the difference here. Again I found Molina's stuff annoying because those tactics seemed cowardly, but I can't get mad at him because it sure won him the majority of the rounds. At times he would hold, literally do nothing for 2 mins, then start fighting around the last minute...

[Doctor_Tenma]

what punching? he was just holding without throwing or doing anything the first 2 minutes and 30 seconds of every round.

Glad I'm not the only one that saw that.