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  • FRANKGWJ
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    • Jun 2007
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    #1

    Do you agree or disagree?

    I read this article from another web site.

    WHAT MAKES A FIGHTER "ELITE"?

    In a recent interview, former WBC welterweight champion Victor Ortiz described himself as one of the elite fighters in the welterweight division. While the term "elite" is often used to describe athletes in all sports, it is commonly thrown around undeservedly. The word "elite" is defined in the dictionary as "the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons." Too often, fighters put themselves into an elite category without warranting the claim. Not to pick on Ortiz, but he is the most recent example of a fighter singing his own praises without having earned that distinction.

    Ortiz is certainly not the best of the welterweight division, nor does his resume indicate he should even be considered. Ortiz's biggest win came against an above-average fighter, Andre Berto. Because not many people gave Ortiz a chance to win does not make him elite. An upset is exactly that, an upset. Had he gone on to defeat Floyd Mayweather following the win against Berto, then maybe Ortiz could have anointed himself elite, but one upset win does not warrant "elite" status.

    Men such as Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Jack Johnson, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, and Sugar Ray Robinson are examples of fighters who were considered "elite" in their time. More recently, "elite" fighters included Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones Jr., Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard Hopkins, Julio Cesar Chavez, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Pernell Whitaker.

    There are only a handful of fighters in the sport of boxing today worthy of being deemed "elite." Today, the number of fighters on the "elite" level is just as slim as it has been throughout the course of history. To be "elite", a fighter must continuously face the absolute best competition and must continuously be victorious to earn his way up to or stay at the top level. Based on the definition of "elite", only 5 fighters today can lay claim to such a lofty title:

    Floyd Mayweather (42-0 26 KO's)
    Manny Pacquiao (54-3-2 38 KO's)
    Wladimir Klitschko (57-3 50 KO's)
    Vitali Klitschko (44-2 40 KO's)
    Andre Ward (25-0 13 KO's)
    There are a certain number of fighters who have been omitted from this list for reasons such as recent losses, inconclusive resumes, or lack of experience. For example, Juan Manuel Marquez is a fighter who could make a case to be on this list, however, in his last 5 fights, his record is 3-2, and he is 0-2 against the "elite".

    There are certainly a number of fighters in boxing today on the brink of "elite" status. By the end of 2012, boxing fans could see the "elite" list grow exponentially. Fighters on the cusp of "elite" status that could find themselves on the list by year's end if all goes well include:

    Sergio Martinez (48-2-2 27 KO's)
    Lucian Bute (30-0 24 KO's)
    Timothy Bradley (28-0 12 KO's)
    Lamont Peterson (30-1-1 15 KO's)
    Amir Khan (26-2 18 KO's)
    Nonito Donaire (28-1 18 KO's)
    Abner Mares (23-0-1 18 KO's)
    Brandon Rios (29-0-1 22 KO's)
    Yuriorkis Gamboa (21-0 16 KO's)
    All of these fighters are just as likely to jump on the "elite" list as are the fighters already on the list just as likely to fall off. Remember, to be on the "elite" level, one must face the best competition, and most importantly, WIN the fight.

    Agree or disagree?

    My question is how did Shane Mosley not make the list in the roy jones, De la Hoya era?
    How did Cotto not make the elite list for this era or even Juan Marquez?
    Who has Bute faced to make the list?
  • W@rri0r
    Banned
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    • Mar 2012
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    #2
    Originally posted by FRANKGWJ
    I read this article from another web site.

    WHAT MAKES A FIGHTER "ELITE"?

    In a recent interview, former WBC welterweight champion Victor Ortiz described himself as one of the elite fighters in the welterweight division. While the term "elite" is often used to describe athletes in all sports, it is commonly thrown around undeservedly. The word "elite" is defined in the dictionary as "the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons." Too often, fighters put themselves into an elite category without warranting the claim. Not to pick on Ortiz, but he is the most recent example of a fighter singing his own praises without having earned that distinction.

    Ortiz is certainly not the best of the welterweight division, nor does his resume indicate he should even be considered. Ortiz's biggest win came against an above-average fighter, Andre Berto. Because not many people gave Ortiz a chance to win does not make him elite. An upset is exactly that, an upset. Had he gone on to defeat Floyd Mayweather following the win against Berto, then maybe Ortiz could have anointed himself elite, but one upset win does not warrant "elite" status.

    Men such as Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, Jack Johnson, Rocky Marciano, Joe Louis, and Sugar Ray Robinson are examples of fighters who were considered "elite" in their time. More recently, "elite" fighters included Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones Jr., Oscar De La Hoya, Bernard Hopkins, Julio Cesar Chavez, Sugar Ray Leonard, and Pernell Whitaker.

    There are only a handful of fighters in the sport of boxing today worthy of being deemed "elite." Today, the number of fighters on the "elite" level is just as slim as it has been throughout the course of history. To be "elite", a fighter must continuously face the absolute best competition and must continuously be victorious to earn his way up to or stay at the top level. Based on the definition of "elite", only 5 fighters today can lay claim to such a lofty title:

    Floyd Mayweather (42-0 26 KO's)
    Manny Pacquiao (54-3-2 38 KO's)
    Wladimir Klitschko (57-3 50 KO's)
    Vitali Klitschko (44-2 40 KO's)
    Andre Ward (25-0 13 KO's)
    There are a certain number of fighters who have been omitted from this list for reasons such as recent losses, inconclusive resumes, or lack of experience. For example, Juan Manuel Marquez is a fighter who could make a case to be on this list, however, in his last 5 fights, his record is 3-2, and he is 0-2 against the "elite".

    There are certainly a number of fighters in boxing today on the brink of "elite" status. By the end of 2012, boxing fans could see the "elite" list grow exponentially. Fighters on the cusp of "elite" status that could find themselves on the list by year's end if all goes well include:

    Sergio Martinez (48-2-2 27 KO's)
    Lucian Bute (30-0 24 KO's)
    Timothy Bradley (28-0 12 KO's)
    Lamont Peterson (30-1-1 15 KO's)
    Amir Khan (26-2 18 KO's)
    Nonito Donaire (28-1 18 KO's)
    Abner Mares (23-0-1 18 KO's)
    Brandon Rios (29-0-1 22 KO's)
    Yuriorkis Gamboa (21-0 16 KO's)
    All of these fighters are just as likely to jump on the "elite" list as are the fighters already on the list just as likely to fall off. Remember, to be on the "elite" level, one must face the best competition, and most importantly, WIN the fight.

    Agree or disagree?

    My question is how did Shane Mosley not make the list in the roy jones, De la Hoya era?
    How did Cotto not make the elite list for this era or even Juan Marquez?
    Who has Bute faced to make the list?
    I disagree with a few things. Ortiz is not Elite. He is a top contender as well as Berto. Cotto and Mosley although people like to discredit were Elites maybe not now specially Mosley. Cotto still has steam left and may be a able to solidify his career with a few more wins. Non of the fighters that were included as possible Elites are. JMM should have been included as an Elite as well as B-hop.

    Comment

    • FRANKGWJ
      Interim Champion
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      #3
      Originally posted by W@rri0r
      I disagree with a few things. Ortiz is not Elite. He is a top contender as well as Berto. Cotto and Mosley although people like to discredit were Elites maybe not now specially Mosley. Cotto still has steam left and may be a able to solidify his career with a few more wins. Non of the fighters that were included as possible Elites are. JMM should have been included as an Elite as well as B-hop.
      I agree with you. Even though Mosley isn't elite anymore, I still fill the author should have mention him in the Roy Jones, Oscar De La Hoya era.

      Comment

      • FRANKGWJ
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        #4
        Should James Toney be mention in the Roy Jones era? What about Tito Tinandad?

        Comment

        • 4Corners
          Nothing But Sunshine
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          #5
          I'd still say Sergio Martinez, Nonito Donaire, Yuriorkis Gamboa, and Timothy Bradley are currently elite fighters. Maybe not elite ALL TIME, but CURRENTLY....they are elite. There are different levels of elite. There's All-Time Elite, where a certain fighter has to stand the test of time to me. There's current elite, where a fighter is currently one of the elite fighters in the sport. And then there's division elite, where a current fighter is one fhte top guys in his division.

          For instance, I'd consider Lucian Bute elite in his division, but nothing more so far. If he whups Carl Froch, that's a different story then of course.

          Comment

          • Kagami Taiga
            Generation of Miracles
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            #6
            id open up the list more but i agree with his premise for the most part

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            • FRANKGWJ
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              #7
              Originally posted by 4CornersKid
              I'd still say Sergio Martinez, Nonito Donaire, Yuriorkis Gamboa, and Timothy Bradley are currently elite fighters. Maybe not elite ALL TIME, but CURRENTLY....they are elite. There are different levels of elite. There's All-Time Elite, where a certain fighter has to stand the test of time to me. There's current elite, where a fighter is currently one of the elite fighters in the sport. And then there's division elite, where a current fighter is one fhte top guys in his division.

              For instance, I'd consider Lucian Bute elite in his division, but nothing more so far. If he whups Carl Froch, that's a different story then of course.
              Once again, who has Bute beat top 10 in his weight class outside of old as Glenn Johnson?

              Comment

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