Why Pirog isn't fighting in the US revealed

[Kagami Taiga]

Yea he's so punished making his million dollar paydays.

im talking in reference to fighting martinez.

[HeroBando]

I don't see Pirog vs Quillin headlining at all. To the American public, Pirog vs Quillin is b-side material.

This is shortsighted IMO. I'll bet that Quillin's next fight, and his eventual title shot, will be on HBO. He's a ton more promotable than Lara, that's for sure.

Lara probably had no idea how much Pirog regularly got paid before he called him out. Lara knew that the 3 million offer was for Martinez and Martinez only. Obviously Pirog had found some sponsors that were only interested in the Martinez fight and there's no way Lara wouldn't be aware of that. Pirog's team was attacking a strawman when they said Lara was crazy for wanting the same offer made to Martinez.

At the time of that thread, I was thinking Pirog was being paid maybe 200k and I thought giving Lara 100k would be fair because Lara would be Pirog's biggest name in his career. Lara deserving more than Pirog's previous opponent was implicit, but no where did he imply he would be asking for 3 million. Now that I know Pirog makes over a million per fight, he can more than afford to give him an acceptable purse. Pirog fans like to complain that everyone is ducking him, but there's Lara more than willing to take him on. I have no idea how much Pirog's opponents have been paid (probably crap), but Pirog could at the very least offer 200k to a guy of Lara's caliber and he would probably take it in order to get a shot at the belt.

You're assuming all over the place. Fact is, Lara's never followed up on this. If money is no concern, why doesn't he take $100k (more than Pirog got for Jacobs, and probably a lot more than Maciel) for a title shot in Russia? Because he's probably making a lot more than that for a no risk undercard on SHO.

I gave you a bunch of reasons why Lara doesn't command 5-10 times the standard rate (my turn to assume) in Russia. You better believe that if Pirog ever fights and beats him, every one of those would be recycled over and over by those trying to discount the win, would be worse than Jacobs.

[DoktorSleepless]

Fact is, Lara's never followed up on this.

Lara is still calling him out. Pirog is just pretending he doesn't exist.

If money is no concern, why doesn't he take $100k (more than Pirog got for Jacobs, and probably a lot more than Maciel) for a title shot in Russia? Because he's probably making a lot more than that for a no risk undercard on SHO.

I gave you a bunch of reasons why Lara doesn't command 5-10 times the standard rate (my turn to assume) in Russia. You better believe that if Pirog ever fights and beats him, every one of those would be recycled over and over by those trying to discount the win, would be worse than Jacobs.

Fucking Darren Barker, who's a nobody, was paid 500k while Martinez made 1.5 million in their last fight. Martinez is having that much trouble finding an opponent that the nobody challenger had to be paid 1/3 of what Martinez made. Now you're telling me that Pirog, who's making 1 million+ per fight in Russia, can't offer more than 1/10 of what he makes? That's bull****. If Pirog doesn't want to offer more than 100k to anyone, that's Pirog pricing himself out, not Lara. Of course he's not going to attract any top opposition offering the "standard fee." I don't actually know what that "standard fee" is, but I doubt Marciel even made 30k and Pirog is crazy if he's expects Lara to take that "standard fee." Pirog isn't the most avoided fighter of the world, he's the biggest cheapskate of the world.

Lara was only paid 135k in his last fight against Paul Williams. Keep in mind he was headlining on HBO for subscribers, not in a PPV that nobody bought like Pirog. Especially because there's no American exposure and he has to risk going to Russia, Lara deserves way more than 100k. Even though Lara has only had one middleweight fight in his life, fact is the Paul Williams fight shits on everything Pirog has ever accomplish at middleweight.

[HeroBando]

Lara is still calling him out. Pirog is just pretending he doesn't exist.


Fucking Darren Barker, who's a nobody, was paid 500k while Martinez made 1.5 million in their last fight. Martinez is having that much trouble finding an opponent that the nobody challenger had to be paid 1/3 of what Martinez made. Now you're telling me that Pirog, who's making 1 million+ per fight in Russia, can't offer more than 1/10 of what he makes? That's bull****. If Pirog doesn't want to offer more than 100k to anyone, that's Pirog pricing himself out, not Lara. Of course he's not going to attract any top opposition offering the "standard fee." I don't actually know what that "standard fee" is, but I doubt Marciel even made 30k and Pirog is crazy if he's expects Lara to take that "standard fee." Pirog isn't the most avoided fighter of the world, he's the biggest cheapskate of the world.

Lara was only paid 135k in his last fight against Paul Williams. Keep in mind he was headlining on HBO for subscribers, not in a PPV that nobody bought like Pirog. Especially because there's no American exposure and he has to risk going to Russia, Lara deserves way more than 100k. Even though Lara has only had one middleweight fight in his life, fact is the Paul Williams fight shits on everything Pirog has ever accomplish at middleweight.

I mostly agree with you, I think they should toss $200k at Lara and see if he bites. If not, issue a press release and be done with it. That is, provided we can take Montoya at face value. I was surprised big time that he'd be making $1mil per fight, I also thought it was more like $200k. I wouldn't be surprised if Gabe was careless, and quoted some figures for the Martinez fight in Russia, which apparently has money behind it, so that Pirog would be taking 25% of the pot. I'd be shocked he makes $1m on routine defenses.

Lara never fought PWill at MW. You'd favor that version of PWill over that Jacobs at MW? As I said, I'd like to see a good offer for Lara, but you're overvaluing him: he loses (and probably would), and he's just an undersized prospect that couldn't put away a shot PWill, and got exposed by a fringe guy in Molina. Not even a Prospect of the Year kind of bum.

[DoktorSleepless]

That is, provided we can take Montoya at face value. I was surprised big time that he'd be making $1mil per fight, I also thought it was more like $200k. I wouldn't be surprised if Gabe was careless, and quoted some figures for the Martinez fight in Russia, which apparently has money behind it, so that Pirog would be taking 25% of the pot. I'd be shocked he makes $1m on routine defenses.

The 1 million per fight quote came from August, a few months before the 3 million offer for Martinez. I don't think it was a mixup. If Pirog is able to find some sponsors to offer Martinez 3 million, I don't think the 1 million per fight is that far fetched now. Chances are it's a recent thing for Pirog since winning the WBO belt.

Lara never fought PWill at MW. You'd favor that version of PWill over that Jacobs at MW?

The contracted weight was 155. That makes it an official middleweight fight even if both fighters came in under 155, not to mention Paul Williams was considered a top 5 middleweight by the ring ratings at the time. Lara is going to fight at middleweight again against Hearns (157 catchweight) because he can't get anyone to fight him at 154. And yes, I still take Paul Williams over Daniel Jacobs any day of the week. I don't think he's shot. He just doesn't do well against slick southpaws. And Daniel Jacobs had a close fight with Ishe Smith and he isn't exactly great either. Lara is small, but Golovkin apparently also walks around at 160 and is still considered a top middleweight.

[HeroBando]

The 1 million per fight quote came from August, a few months before the 3 million offer for Martinez. I don't think it was a mixup. If Pirog is able to find some sponsors to offer Martinez 3 million, I don't think the 1 million per fight is that far fetched now. Chances are it's a recent thing for Pirog since winning the WBO belt.


The contracted weight was 155. That makes it an official middleweight fight even if both fighters came in under 155. Lara is going to fight at middleweight again against Hearns (157 catchweight) because he can't get anyone to fight him at 154. And yes, I still take Paul Williams over Daniel Jacobs any day of the week. I don't think he's shot. He just doesn't do well against slick southpaws. And Daniel Jacobs had a close fight with Ishe Smith and he isn't exactly great either. Lara is small, but Golovkin apparently also walks around at 160 and is still considered a top middleweight.

Thanks for the corrections. Either way I'll wait for a second source before accepting 1mil. So lets say Sergio went to Russia for 3mil, how much you think is Pirog getting, 3mil? 25% sounds about right, and that would have to be a big boost over his routine earnings given the event, I mean, I've streamed some of these fights, and it sure seems like they are losing lots of money if they are paying him $1mil.

I agree on Jacobs, wasn't that impressed (though he has some tools), but Lara has looked lazy, and didn't impress against Brewer either. If Jacobs comes back strong, I definitely wouldn't favor PWill over him. Jacobs is the better boxer, faster, and packs more of a punch. Other than Sergio, PWill has never fought a legit MW, is wide open, it was only assumed his chin would be able to take it.

[Mikhnienko]

If Lara vs Hearns is able to get a premium cable date, Lara vs Pirog can too. Even being the b side on Showtime or HBO is a great start. A guy like Pirog should not put all his eggs in one baskets on headlining. Pirog headlining is very unlikely unless he's able to get Chavez Jr or Martinez, especially now that the Geale fight isn't happening for whatever reason. Lara got a lucky break landing the Williams fight after not looking so hot against Molina.


I could also understand Pirog not wanting to fight Lara and taking a pay cut in Russia, but the option is still there and Lara is willing. I don't really have that big of a problem with Pirog in that respect. The reason I mention it is because I do have a problem with some of his delusional fans who think Martinez is ducking Pirog, but don't apply the same standard on the somewhat similar Pirog and Lara situation.


I didn't get that impression at all. He didn't even mention money. Lara has been having trouble finding an opponent and capitalized in the Pirog drama that was going on. Lara has also been calling out Sergio Martinez and that belt from Pirog would help him a lot to get the fight.

You seem to be overlooking one large fact though, Lara isn't even in his division. Being a Martinez fan i can understand that you love seeing MW Title holders defend against men from smaller weighclasses who have done nothing in the division but the rest of us have more common sense.

[DoktorSleepless]

I mean, I've streamed some of these fights, and it sure seems like they are losing lots of money if they are paying him $1mil.

I vaguely remember Dibella mentioning it was government money, and we all know how wasteful government is sometimes. Although, I couldn't tell if it was just a guess from Dibella or if he knew for sure. (can't remember the source. I'm looking for it. )

Gabriel Montoya is a pretty knowledgeable insider so I doubt he was mistaken. He has had like 3-4 long articles on Pirog based on direct info from Pirog's camp on maxboxing.com so his info is probably solid.

If Jacobs comes back strong, I definitely wouldn't favor PWill over him.

Jacobs is recovering from cancer. He just had a tumor removed from is spine and is currently limping. Jacobs says he still wants to return, but my guess is he's done.

[Ray*]

The problem with people like Pirog is the fact that they can make more money fighting stiffs in there home country especially when they have a belt, Now I don't know why HBO would not be interested in him apart from not paying him what he earns in Russia, but I don't blame him for not taking less to fight in America, The only people who thought Martinez was ducking him were the ones threaten by Martinez calling out their favourite fighters, so they try to divert the attention.

[HeroBando]

I vaguely remember Dibella mentioning it was government money, and we all know how wasteful government is sometimes. Although, I couldn't tell if it was just a guess from Dibella or if he knew for sure. (can't remember the source. I'm looking for it. )

Gabriel Montoya is a pretty knowledgeable insider so I doubt he was mistaken. He has had like 3-4 long exposes on Pirog based on direct info from Pirog's camp on maxboxing.com so his info is probably solid.


Jacobs is recovering from cancer. He just had a tumor removed from is spine and is currently limping. Jacobs says he still wants to return, but my guess is he's done.

Fair enough, I wish some of the East Euro insider posters would clarify. If he's really making $1mil per mandatory, then let him stay there, but he should be able to get better opposition. It's kind of a Sturm situation, but kinda not, since Sturm has not attempted to unify, has rebuffed other beltholders (Abraham, Pirog, Sergio,?) and regularly needs friendly judging against b grade comp. Lets see what Pirog does with this optional defense.