Comments Thread For: Arce: If Marquez Killed Pacquiao, Manny Would Still Win

[-Kev-]

Jorge Arce, I like you because of what you bring to boxing.

Still, Nonito Donaire has your number. He would like to have a call with you.

Damn, Narvaez, Arce...that would be pretty weak couple of fights in a row.

[LeadUppercut]

I will add one more.....

FACT: When almost every analyst, almost every commentator, almost every knowledgable ringside observer, almost every trainer, and EVERY SINGLE PROFESSIONAL FIGHTER who was interviewed, gave the win to Marquez..... the only person who would argue would be a *******

You guys are a joke.

[LeadUppercut]

Smarten up clowns, and learn about the sport......

FACT: that fight was a boxer vs puncher, and Marquez made Manny fight his fight all night long, no cigar for pointing out who the ring general was

FACT: Marquez controlled the center of the ring from the very first bell

FACT: those compubox stats are absurd, and obviously wildly inaccurate, I doubt that Pac out-landed Marquez at all, Marquez clearly won most of the exchanges..... and only a fanboy would argue compubox anyway

FACT: Pacquiao did not win the fight OR the boxing match

3-0

Pacquiao got exposed..... AGAIN !!

[tennishero]

you expect any mexicans to say otherwise

pacquiao single handedly cleared out all the blacks and mexicans (so basically all fighters ) from 125-147

he's hated worse than anyone

of course all these washed up hasbeen boxers are saying he's lost- its their chance at a jab at him- cos in a real fight he would be KTFO out of them

[imakaiw]

Who won?





http://www.nowboxing.com/2011/11/pac...uez-win/21923/

PACQUIAO VS. MARQUEZ A ROBBERY? ON WHAT BASIS DID MARQUEZ WIN?
Thursday, November 24, 2011

By Don Donatello

Many boxers, trainers, and their promoters will employ the crying game after a loss. It’ part of the game. The crying is meant to misdirect the fans into thinking that their fighter did not legitimately lose the fight. Because prize fighting is to attract the paying fans, hence, the name, a boxer must build and maintain his fan base so he can economically gain as a fighter.

The biggest way for a boxer to lose his fan base is by losing a fight. The bigger the defeat, the more of his fan base that will abandon his ship. A close loss on the other hand will hurt his marketability, particularly the casual boxing fan, but he probably will keep most of his fan base. But a loss is still a loss and it will affect the fighter’s marketability, in most cases. So the crying game is employed to assuage the stigma of a loss.

The fight will have to be a close fight for the crying game to have the desired effect. Crying robbery when a fighter clearly lost just makes that fighter look like a fool, in that case, he will likely hurt his fan base even more.

Before the internet, before recorded media, the crying game was very effective. After all, there was no video of the fight to be scrutinized by the public. But today there are video recorders, the Internet, YouTube, and other media outlets to watch the fight in question.

With that, I challenge those who scored the Marquez/Pacquiao 3 fight for Marquez. On what basis did Marquez win that fight on November 12? For those who favor Pacquiao in a win, they have the punch stat numbers to show. CompuBox tally 176 punches landed for Manny Pacquiao and only 138 for Juan Manuel Marquez. It also shows that Pacquiao clearly inflicted more damage on his opponent. All three official judges unanimously agreed that Marquez did not beat Pacquiao.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Visible cuts, bruises, and swelling is a the signature on who scored the most effective punches. Pacquiao’s visible marks on his face was only the cut on his brow that was the result of a head butt shown on replay. And of course a small cut on his inner lip. Marquez was knotted with lumps and bruises on his face, nose, eye brows, forehead and the side of his head.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

So tell me, why did Marquez win again? Provide the numbers to counter CompuBox’s numbers. The video is available if you care to look and do the footwork to get a hold of one. I recorded the fight on my DVR. I am sure there are many pro Marquez that are in possession of a DVR.

Some Marquez supporters are basing their argument on former boxers scoring the fight for Marquez like Oscar De La Hoya, Erik Morales, writers, celebrities, and others. On what basis are these former boxers more qualified to judge a fight. Did these former boxers have a better seat in the house than the judges, how many fights did these former fighters judge in the past. Are the judges better than Oscar and Erik at fighting? So why would these former boxers have more credibility at judging a fight than a professional judge with years of judging championship boxing? Not only did the judges correctly score the fight, the CompuBox backs up their score. Did Oscar and Erik have a concrete tally with pencil and paper on hand per round like the judges? Or did they just go by feel and emotion like so many others did. Judges are not high fiving anyone, carrying on a conversation, checking their email, eating during the fight. As those activities can distract and even influence their judgement of the fight.

Let’s take out the biased opinion of the boxer’s fans. So let the professional judges do the judging. And the winner is Manny Pacquiao. According to who? According to the most qualified and experienced people who judge fights for a living. Any opinion, be it ringside reporters, fans, athletes does not have the ability, training, and credibility of a professionally trained judge with years of judging championship boxing.

Let’s be clear about something regarding how a fight is judged in the USA. Traditionally, all being equal, judges tend to favor the aggressor, the fighter initiating the fight, the one chasing the other. Are we clear on that? When a round is very close and there is no clear winner, the judges will give the benefit of the doubt to the aggressor an example is Tito Trinidad vs. Oscar De La Hoya — De La Hoya dominated the opening rounds with ease but, believing he had the fight won already, started running from Trinidad, giving the last rounds away. The benefit of the doubt is also given to the busier fighter who throws more punches. Another fact about US judges that most people don’t know is that the Champion is also given the benefit of the doubt if there is no clear winner of the round. How many of the fans present at the Pacquiao/Marquez fight were aware of those factors in regards to how a judge scores a round?

There were only six rounds that were unanimous in the scoring of rounds for either fighter, three rounds for Juan Manuel Marquez, and three rounds for Manny Pacquiao. There were six rounds where the judges split in their scoring. In all six rounds, two out of three judges scored a 10-9 round for Manny. A round where the judges’ scores are not unanimous, it indicates a close round that could be scored for either fighter.

Judges official scorecard for Pacquiao-Marquez III

Round 1
Robert Hoyle Marquez :9 Pacquiao: 10
Dave Moretti Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10

Round 2
Robert Hoyle Marquez: 9 Pacquiao:10
Dave Moretti Marquez: 10 Pacquiao: 9
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10

Round 3
Robert Hoyle Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10
Dave Moretti Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10

Round 4
Robert Hoyle Marquez: 10 Pacquiao: 9
Dave Moretti Marquez:10 Pacquiao: 9
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 10 Pacquiao: 9

Round 5
Robert Hoyle Marquez:10 Pacquiao: 9
Dave Moretti Marquez:10 Pacquiao: 9
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez:10 Pacquiao: 9

Round 6
Robert Hoyle Marquez:9 Pacquiao: 10
Dave Moretti Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10

Round 7
Robert Hoyle Marquez:10 Pacquiao: 9
Dave Moretti Marquez:10 Pacquiao: 9
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 10 Pacquiao: 9

Round 8
Robert Hoyle Marquez: 10 Pacquiao: 9
Dave Moretti Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10

Round 9
Robert Hoyle Marquez:10 Pacquiao: 9
Dave Moretti Marquez:9 Pacquiao: 10
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 9 Pacquiao:10

Round 10
Robert Hoyle Marquez:10 Pacquiao:9
Dave Moretti Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10

Round 11
Robert Hoyle Marquez:9 Pacquiao: 10
Dave Moretti Marquez: 10 Pacquiao: 9
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez: 9 Pacquiao: 10

Round 12
Robert Hoyle Marquez:9 Pacquiao: 10
Dave Moretti Marquez:9 Pacquiao: 10
Glenn Trowbridge Marquez:10 Pacquiao: 9

Unanimous Rounds For Marquez

Rounds: 4, 5, 7

Unanimous Rounds For Pacquiao

Rounds: 1, 3, 6,

Split Rounds

2, 8, 9, 10 ,11, 12

Round 2:

Hoyle: Pacquiao
Moretti: Marquez
Trowbridge: Pacquiao

Pacquiao 2-1

Round 8:

Hoyle: Marquez
Moretti: Pacquiao
Trowbridge: Pacquiao

Pacquiao 2-1

Round 9:

Hoyle: Marquez
Moretti: Pacquiao
Trowbridge: Pacquiao

Pacquiao 2-1

Round 10:

Hoyle: Marquez
Moretti: Pacquiao
Trowbridge: Pacquiao

Pacquiao 2-1

Round 11:

Hoyle: Pacquiao
Moretti: Marquez
Trowbridge: Pacquiao

Pacquiao 2-1

Round 12:

Hoyle: Pacquiao
Moretti: Pacquiao
Trowbridge: Marquez

Pacquiao 2-1

In those rounds where the judges did not agree unanimously on who won the round, it is clearly indicated that the official judges correctly gave the benefit of the doubt to the Champion when the rounds could have gone either way. Pacquiao was the aggressor, threw more punches per round, and he is the Champion. A challenger must clearly take the title from the champion in boxing. A challenger must clearly win the round to win that round. According to the scorecard of the three judges, there were six rounds that could have gone either way. In those six rounds of 2, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12, judge Trowbridge and Moretti, gave 4 out of 6 to Manny Pacquiao. Judge Robert Hoyle evenly split those six rounds at three a piece. Judge Hoyle has the least experience of the three judges and scored the fight as a draw 114-114.

With that said, I ask this, on what basis did Marquez beat Pacquiao?

Facts are that Pacquiao landed more punches 176 to Marquez’s 138. It is visibly apparent that Pacquiao inflicted the more damaging and telling blows. Marquez was knotted with lumps and bruises while Pacquiao’s only visible damage was a cut above his eye that was officially ruled from a clash of heads. The best seat and vantage point to watch the fight belongs to the three judges.

[LeadUppercut]

A pair of gloves = $100

A ringside seat = $200

Air fare to the fight = $300

Watching a 38yo midget repeatedly bounce his right hand off the face of the supposed P4P champ who attempted to disadvantage him on the scales.....

PRICELESS !!

Who's your daddy ?

[LeadUppercut]

Manny clearly won the fight!

On three reasons;
1. The judges scientific, expert and actual live boxing analysis give it to Manny in close scores.
2. The compu-boxes made a clear statistics.
3. The law of inertia can be deceiving and will indeed favor a stationary Marquez than a non stop moving Pacquiao. If a fast moving object collide with a stationary equal but opposing force hitting the former ,( Pacquiao being the fast moving object) will likely be thrown back with a clearer outcome if hit by a stationary and counter-punching Marquez. On the other hand, a fast moving object (Pacquiao) hitting a stationary object will likely be of lesser magnitude to see in the eyes of spectators.

What can we expect Marquez always thinks he won in decision games.

1. 3 fights with Pacman - Marquez insisted he won the fights!
2. a fight with Chris Joihn - Marquez contested he won the fight and was robbed because of hometown decision!
3. A fight with fellow Mexican Barrera - Again he swore he won the game!
4. In Mayweather fight - He thought Floyd was overweight coming into the fight!

What more?

Stop being so ******.

The following fighters know much more about boxing than you do.....

In the pantheon of disgraceful decisions in the history of boxing this one will go down as one of the most notorious. Juan Manuel Marquez, at the age of 38, has just seen his best performance in the ring to comprehensively out box, out think, out work, and out hustle Manny Pacquiao over 12 rounds stolen from him by three judges who have brought shame to the sport. It was an historic performance. It should have resulted in a unanimous decision in favour of Juan Manuel Marquez. Instead he lost and so did the sport of boxing.,,,, http://www.********boxing.com/news.php?p=29847&more=1

After 12 rounds of what appeared to many at ringside and nearly all of the crowd of 16,368 at the MGM Grand Garden Arena to be a solid win for Marquez, two ringside judges saw a fight only a businessman or a blind man could have seen. Somehow Judge Glenn Trowbridge scored the bout 116-112 for Pacquiao and Dave Moretti had it 115-113 for the WBO welterweight titleholder. The third, Robert Hoyle, had it a draw 114-114. Meanwhile, a number of ringside observers saw Marquez winning 116-112 and as much as 117-112. When Pacquiao’s trainer, Freddie Roach, was asked in the ring if he agreed his fighter had beaten Marquez again he waited for a moment before answering. “The fight was close,’’ Roach said. “It was very close.’’ Not really. Not unless you brought a pencil to ringside with you. Later he would say he felt his man pulled it out in the last two rounds while also conceding “it could have gone either way.’’ As endorsements go, it wasn’t exactly a ringing one. What was more telling was an hour later when he said, “It’s the kind of fight I don’t want to do again but we have to. S__t. He’s given us problems three times..... http://******.craveonline.com/blog/1...ss-to-pacquiao

Pacquaio “Wins,” Marquez is “robbed” and boxing “loses”.....
http://www.maxboxing.com/news/max-bo...-boxing-loses-

The opinions of many within the ringside media and those at the post-fight press conference were somewhat mixed, but the overwhelming majority felt that the legend from Mexico City had been robbed. The general consensus is that Marquez’ counter punching controlled the pace of the contest and that he landed the harder shots. By: Mike Sloan, ringside in Las Vegas. By Round 9, the unfathomable seemed more than possible, and people began to say it out loud: Pacquiao might lose. Pacquiao is losing ~ NYtimes.com

Fighthype - Marquez 115 Pacquiao 113

SecondsOut.com - Marquez 116 Pacquiao 113

Amir Khan / Julio Cesar Chavez - Marquez won !!

Oscar De La Hoya - Marquez won !!


Marvin Hagler "Disgusting result! #ROBBERY!" http://twitter.com/#!/TheMarvelous0ne

Bernard Hopkins "FloydMayweather blow thru MannyPacquiao easy!!" http://twitter.com/#!/therealbhop

OscarDeLaHoya "I'm still sitting on my couch in disbelief. Paquiao cannot compete with a counter puncher like Marquez. Juan has the Patience to wait and capitalize on mistakes. I think this shows how superior mayweather is." http://twitter.com/#!/oscardelahoya

Andre Dirrell "Ok after this fight, I don't know what 2 think! Did JMM just have a good night, or did Pacman put on a great possum show 2 get MW! U TELL ME. GO GET YO GLOVES ON AND COME WHOOP THIS DUDE!!!! PACMAN CAN'T SEE YOU!!!" http://twitter.com/#!/andredirrell

ZAB JUDAH "Robbery!!!!" http://twitter.com/#!/SUPERJUDAH

Steve Cunningham "All pro fighters I know ,guys which know what to look 4 in a fight had jmm winning. It's not just entertainment to us its a #lifestyle#" http://twitter.com/#!/usscunningham

Anthonydirrell "If y'all think that they was bout to lose out on 150 million y'all crazy"

Matthew Macklin "It was close but still wrong...and for it to happen THREE times!!!!!?? WTF!!!" http://twitter.com/#!/mattmacklin

Andre S.O.G. Ward "Well, I was wrong. Marquez is boxing a masterful fight. Marquez won this fight, period!!" http://twitter.com/#!/andreward

Terry Norris "Wow! Thought PAC man would win. But clearly Marquez was robbed again. PAC did NOT win this fight."

Andre Berto "Smh WOW..... Come on u know Top Rank was gonna let Marquez **** the money up!!! Great fight though"

Omar Henry "Wow I just watched Pacquiao get beat and Marquez get robbed!!!! and yes I was one of the people in the crowd booing the robbery!!!!"

Chris Arreola "Marquez won, true champ. Let's see Mayweather-Pacquiao. ****."

Rashad Holloway "I'm team Pacquiao all day but Marquez won this fight hands down. Sad to see how politics run this sport when fighters work so hard." http://twitter.com/#!/RASHADHOLLOWAY

Fernando Vargas "Well I'm DISGUSTED at tonight's event. It's sad that u can TRAIN your butt off for months and get jobbed at the end of the day! Truth is that EVERYWHERE Marquez goes EVERYONE will tell him that he WAS ROBBED & HELL FEEL LIKE HE WON BECUZ HE REALLY DID!!! SAME FOR PACMAN. EVERYWHERE HE GOES PEOPLE WILL TELL HIM HE REALLY LOST AND HE GOT A GIFT!!! LOVE THIS SPORT. But this is a SAD MOMENT FOR ME.
#LongLiveDinamitaMarquez" http://twitter.com/#!/_FernandoVargas

Juan Diaz "Great fight for the boxung fans but bad decision by the judges." http://twitter.com/#!/1Babybull

Amir Khan "mayb a good draw or marquez by 1-2 rounds." http://twitter.com/#!/amirkingkhan

Anthony Mundine "I luv PAC too...but he lost fair & square...but I'm sure he will return stronger...PAC v Marquez 4 #bringit. Actually I change my mind! Marquez deserves the pay day v money!! As he was really the victor! Don't think I wanna see 4. Even tho money." http://twitter.com/The_Man_Mundine

Erik Morales "Nos robaroooon y feo. Marquez total reconocimiento es el segundo mexicano que le pone en su madre a pacquiao, gano y gano muy bien felicidadees!" Which translates to English as "They robbed us and it was an ugly robbery too. To Marquez total recognition, he is the second Mexican to beat the **** out of Pacquiao, he won and he won nicely. Congratulations!" http://twitter.com/terrible100

Jean Pascal "On my card Marquez WON!!!!" http://twitter.com/jeanpascalchamp

Kendall Holt "If u thought Pacman won or if Marquez needed the 12th to win its clear u don't know ish about this sport." http://twitter.com/#!/Kholt456

Peter Manfredo Jr. "Wow, after watching this, I better not leave it to the judges next week!!!" http://twitter.com/#!/PrideOfProv


Sugar Ray Leonard said Marquez won!

Marvin Hagler said Marquez won!

Bernard Hopkins said Marquez won!

Floyd Mayweather said Marquez won!

Oscar De La Hoya said Marquez won

Andre Direll said Marquez won!

Zab Judah said Marquez won!

Steve Cunningham said Marquez won!

Anthony Direll said Marquez won!

Matthew Macklin said Marquez won!

Andre Ward said Marquez won!

Terry Norris said Marquez won!

Andre Berto said Marquez won!

Omar Henry said Marquez won!

Chris Arreola said Marquez won!

Rashad Holloway said Marquez won!

Fernando Vargas said Marquez won!

Juan Diaz said Marquez won!

Amir Khan said Marquez won!

Anthony Mundine said Marquez won!

Erik Morales said Marquez won!

Jean Pascal said Marquez won!


Marco Antonio Barrera said Marquez won!

Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. said Marquez won!

Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. said Marquez won!

Jorge Linares said Marquez won!

Peter Manfredo said Marquez won!

Michael Marley said Marquez won!

Darren Barker said Marquez won!

Marcos Maidana said Marquez won!

Raul Martinez said Marquez won!

J'Leon Love said Marquez won!

Lou DiBella said Marquez won!

Josesito Lopez said Marquez won!

Nazeem Richardson said Marquez won!

Sergio Martinez said Marquez won!

[Toyman]

pacquiao won this fight clearly and in addition, rearranged marquez face just in case there was any doubt.


meanwhile, pac emerged from his victory unscathed.


why is this guy talking about killing pacquiao when

a) marquez could never even get close to a knockdown on pac

b) in the entire trilogy, marquez must have only hurt pacquiao 2-3 times, whereas pac would have marquez hanging on for dear life on about 5 occasions in the first 2 fights, and then thoroughly outclassed him in the 3rd

[-Lowkey-]

JMM had to K.O Pac that night just to get a draw look at the last so called ‘Mega fights’ in boxing the fights that bring attention to the sport.

Pac vs JMM (ends in a controversial decision crowd booos after hearing result)

Floyd vs Ortiz (ends prematurely and controversially)

Pac vs Mosley (glorified sparing session left a bad taste in boxing fans mouths)

This all hurts boxing.

[Airwolf22]

Marquez is a consistently in denial state everytime he lose a fight.

Manny clearly won the fight!

On three reasons;
1. The judges scientific, expert and actual live boxing analysis give it to Manny in close scores.
2. The compu-boxes made a clear statistics.
3. The law of inertia can be deceiving and will indeed favor a stationary Marquez than a non stop moving Pacquiao. If a fast moving object collide with a stationary equal but opposing force hitting the former ,( Pacquiao being the fast moving object) will likely be thrown back with a clearer outcome if hit by a stationary and counter-punching Marquez. On the other hand, a fast moving object (Pacquiao) hitting a stationary object will likely be of lesser magnitude to see in the eyes of spectators.

What can we expect Marquez always thinks he won in decision games.

1. 3 fights with Pacman - Marquez insisted he won the fights!
2. a fight with Chris Joihn - Marquez contested he won the fight and was robbed because of hometown decision!
3. A fight with fellow Mexican Barrera - Again he swore he won the game!
4. In Mayweather fight - He thought Floyd was overweight coming into the fight!

What more?