Why didn't Pacquiao follow Roach's instructions inbetween rounds??

[studentofthegam]

Great post and nice analysis.

IMO Manny made this fight harder than it had to be. Also, Manny showed Marquez way too much respect. I said it after the fight and I'll say it again, If Manny would have used the same effective aggression he used in the Cotto fight, there would be no controversy and he would have won decisively.

Its not a problem with Manny. He's the same fighter he's been. I make the mistake of saying "Manny lost it" at times. Really he hasnt. The last two opponents just didnt agree to take repeated punches to the face. Cotto was the only one with decent boxing left in him but he fought like an idiot. He followed Manny just like Margs, DLH and Diaz. Pac fans are taking it hard trying to figure out whats up with Manny but the reality is that he only looks good against people that fight his fight and is easy to discourage when they dont. Marquez broke his spirit and Floyd would make him a full time politician.

[jazluvr]

Great thread! Now as far as i understand it, Ariza has been complaining that Pac hasn't been following his way of training, concentrating mostly on lateral leg movements. Notice lately pac has been complaining of leg cramps, and hasn't been looking like his old "tasmanian devil" self?

I also noticed that both fighters seems to be fighting the same way. I would say Pac was fighting JMM's fight. Pac hasn't been training Ariza's way, which is harder for Pac, but much more beneficial.

Remember the old Pac, bouncing from one side to his opponents other side after landing a good shot or combo, thus avoiding getting countered? We didn't see that Pac this fight so much. We saw Pac more stationary, being careful, instead of attacking then bouncing back and forth, punching from different angles.

Pac admitted that he has NOT been following Ariza's advice, and admitted he was wrong not to, but will do so from now on. That's why Pac was not happy with his own performance.
Plus, JMM just seems to have a style that will always trouble Pac, but observing both there perspective career advances, Pac should have won this fight much more decisively than he did.

Also, there may be a bit of truth that Pac is getting More "civilize-minded" in the ring than he used to be. He used to be a bloodthirsty animal, now he's "touching gloves" with his opponents in every fight, in almost every round!

I don't want to see that shit, and Roach was right getting on Pac for it, I want to see Pac show no mercy for anyone, no respect, I'm going to knock you on your ass!

So yes, Manny is getting too respectful of his opponents, and i hope he listens to Ariza, and we see the old Pac again, whoever he fights, bouncing back and forth, hitting at will, and bouncing around, avoiding the counters.

Good post Lorily, you're one of the best!

[JibbaJabber]

Lorily is smart but bias. You will see through her over time. She has subtle agenda's.

As for Manny not moving to his right, he hasn't listened to Roach for a while. Roach Said is snidely your friend? Why tap gloves. He didn't tell PAC to hang on the ropes vs Cotto. Roach doesn't have that sincere voice and PAC doesn't look a him in that corner the same way anymore.

PAC first needs sparring partners that actually mimic styles of fighters. Rodela and all of them used last weRe extremely poor.

pac was geting his ass whipped by his sparring partners.. didnt you see the videos smh..

[hbonnie21]

i think manny got confused out there. its one thing to have a plan its another to execute it under the bright lights. it almost looked like he was intimidated by the size of marquez who looked alot bigger than expected...

[ATG Fighter]

Great thread that gives you something to think about (rare on NSB). I will watch the fight again and I'm sure there will be many things to pick up on.

What I do remember is that a few times Pac got Marquez with lead lefts and moved to the right. They were kind of the lead lefts that I remember him landing on Oscar, not really powerful but effective.

[the mesiah]

Good point Al, very good point. So, it would be safe to assume then that Pac was more concerned with trying to hit JMM with a K.O. punch then trying to avoid Juans counter punches. (I know it sounds obvious but you'd think Pac would realize that the plan wasn't working because every punch he threw was being answered back by JMM twofold)

You would think, but like everyone around him wants and more importantly HE thinkin the whole time KO KO to close the chapter between the 2.a decision in his view is almost considered a "loss".

[wazaa.]

Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. I noticed it so early in the fight that it was frustrating the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything.

Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that?

In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV....

After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that.

After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.")

And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got ****ed LOL.

[Larry the boss]

all i heard was"you gotta use your speed and knock him out"

[Lorily]

Traffic --------> You know what to do.

[jazluvr]

Wazza's manhood feels threatened by a woman that knows more and can talk boxing circles around him. He has been targeting her, stalking her, trying (and failing) to discredit her.

He has nothing to say, so he posts pics. Wazza, Lorily is ten times the poster you could ever hope to be, though you have your moments, you'll never be as good as she is.