Hard, Crisp, Accurate, Placed punches vs. taps and grazing punches

[Hitman18]

This is not solely a Pac Marquez thread, this is a general thread, however it does pertain to their fight. Criticize me if you want but I believe fewer crisp and head-snapping shots count much more than a bunch of taps and grazing shots.

If a fighter out punches another in a few rounds by 17-11 or 22-15, but his shots are nearly unnoticed and have MINIMAL effect, compared to the other fighters punches which were harder and more effective, than who do you think wins these rounds? Whoever lands more, or whoever lands the harder and effective punches? This will help us determine how people score fights.

Please Note: Strong fighters who have amazing power can be neutralized by creating distance and using range. Pacquiao had to reach in to land arm punches and off-balance, weak punches. Marquez controlled the fight every round.

[Steak]

number of punches landed is not the way to score a round, if thats what you mean.

there are a few more factors you have to consider. first off, a lot of Pacquiao's shots were pretty clean, and landed directly on Marquez's face, and just because Marquez happened to have a number of the more 'showy' punches doesnt mean all his punches did more damage.

Pacquiao is naturally the stronger puncher, and also 'reaching' with your punches does not really make them weaker by any means. Pacquiao's leg strength and dexterity makes his punches quite effective because he can get his entire body behind them. Pushing off the ground and getting your body behind the punch for the most part is more damaging than a shot thrown with mostly just your upper body while your momentum is going backwards.


'controlling' means nothing to me, since who can be 'controlling' the round is very vague and open to interpretation, and often people just use ring generalship synonymously with 'I like this style best'. I score solely on who does more damage with legal punches per round. There were certain rounds Marquez won more dominantly, ie the 5th, than any round that Pacquiao won. but on a round by round basis, I felt Pacquiao did more damage in a certain 7 rounds.

[Toyman]

if jmm was controlling the fight,

how come pac wrecked his face with legal punches

and jmm only caused a cut with a headbutt? that headbutt was the best shot he landed all night long.

[straightleft]

This is not solely a Pac Marquez thread, this is a general thread, however it does pertain to their fight. Criticize me if you want but I believe fewer crisp and head-snapping shots count much more than a bunch of taps and grazing shots.

If a fighter out punches another in a few rounds by 17-11 or 22-15, but his shots are nearly unnoticed and have MINIMAL effect, compared to the other fighters punches which were harder and more effective, than who do you think wins these rounds? Whoever lands more, or whoever lands the harder and effective punches? This will help us determine how people score fights.

Please Note: Strong fighters who have amazing power can be neutralized by creating distance and using range. Pacquiao had to reach in to land arm punches and off-balance, weak punches. Marquez controlled the fight every round.

I guess you should watch the fight once again and this time open your eyes. Pac is a strong harder puncher than Marquez. Pac landed more harder punches, threw more punches and the aggressor while Marauez waiting, back pedalling, waiting, backpedalling, reset and repeat. Pac brought the fight to Marquez that why Marquez able to used his counter punching skills. What if Pac just waited for Marquez to punch first just like what Marquez did. Do you think Marquez can touch Pacquaio?

[KFC(Fforfloyd)]

I guess you should watch the fight once again and this time open your eyes. Pac is a strong harder puncher than Marquez. Pac landed more harder punches, threw more punches and the aggressor while Marauez waiting, back pedalling, waiting, backpedalling, reset and repeat. Pac brought the fight to Marquez that why Marquez able to used his counter punching skills. What if Pac just waited for Marquez to punch first just like what Marquez did. Do you think Marquez can touch Pacquaio?

marquez landed a few of the most visually hard punch but it doesnt take away the fact pac landed hard punches too and more of them than all of marquez most hardest and least hardest punches combin

[KFC(Fforfloyd)]

number of punches landed is not the way to score a round, if thats what you mean.

there are a few more factors you have to consider. first off, a lot of Pacquiao's shots were pretty clean, and landed directly on Marquez's face, and just because Marquez happened to have a number of the more 'showy' punches doesnt mean all his punches did more damage.

Pacquiao is naturally the stronger puncher, and also 'reaching' with your punches does not really make them weaker by any means. Pacquiao's leg strength and dexterity makes his punches quite effective because he can get his entire body behind them. Pushing off the ground and getting your body behind the punch for the most part is more damaging than a shot thrown with mostly just your upper body while your momentum is going backwards.


'controlling' means nothing to me, since who can be 'controlling' the round is very vague and open to interpretation, and often people just use ring generalship synonymously with 'I like this style best'. I score solely on who does more damage with legal punches per round. There were certain rounds Marquez won more dominantly, ie the 5th, than any round that Pacquiao won. but on a round by round basis, I felt Pacquiao did more damage in a certain 7 rounds.

so how do u score round 4 then? do u give it to JMM because he landed the most visually hardest punch at the last ten seconds of the round?

rounds arent scored on who landed the hardest punches, you either land a clean and hard punch or you didnt, the degree of the harness of a punch can only sway the score card when it knocks you down and a point will be taken away

all taps, grazing shots are not considered clean nor hard nor are punches that are partially blocked, blocked

[Steak]

so how do u score round 4 then? do u give it to JMM because he landed the most visually hardest punch at the last ten seconds of the round?

rounds arent scored on who landed the hardest punches, you either land a clean and hard punch or you didnt, the degree of the harness of a punch can only sway the score card when it knocks you down and a point will be taken away

all taps, grazing shots are not considered clean nor hard nor are punches that are partially blocked, blocked

I gave round 4 to Marquez, not because he landed the hardest punch of the round, but because aggregately I felt he did more damage than Pacquiao that round.

[Hitman18]

number of punches landed is not the way to score a round, if thats what you mean.

there are a few more factors you have to consider. first off, a lot of Pacquiao's shots were pretty clean, and landed directly on Marquez's face, and just because Marquez happened to have a number of the more 'showy' punches doesnt mean all his punches did more damage.

Pacquiao is naturally the stronger puncher, and also 'reaching' with your punches does not really make them weaker by any means. Pacquiao's leg strength and dexterity makes his punches quite effective because he can get his entire body behind them. Pushing off the ground and getting your body behind the punch for the most part is more damaging than a shot thrown with mostly just your upper body while your momentum is going backwards.


'controlling' means nothing to me, since who can be 'controlling' the round is very vague and open to interpretation, and often people just use ring generalship synonymously with 'I like this style best'. I score solely on who does more damage with legal punches per round. There were certain rounds Marquez won more dominantly, ie the 5th, than any round that Pacquiao won. but on a round by round basis, I felt Pacquiao did more damage in a certain 7 rounds.

Although your argument almost seems valid, I disagree. I am a boxer, I don't know if you are, but in the ring I have had to pressure and chase someone down, pushing off the ground and reaching in severely reduces the power behind your punches. It is almost contradicting to say you can get your body behind punches if you are reaching in. Granted, Pacquiao landed many clean, powerful, and accurate shots that busted up Marquez face, but not as many as Marquez did. Not judging by "showy" punches or a "style that I like," but judging by the more effective punches I scored the fight 7 to 5 for Marquez. Maybe "controlling the fight" is a vague statement. It is somewhat, open to interpretation. But if you know boxing, then controlling the fight means controlling all aspects of the fight, such as tempo, distance, and implementing strategies. For instance, a counter-puncher such as Marquez would control a fight by letting an aggressor come in and throw from a bad range and then countering him while he is off balance or not yet reset from his attack. Also, he would control the speed of a fight by not letting his opponent make it a brawl or fast paced shootout, but rather a slower paced chess match. This is what Marquez did to Pacquiao. If Pacquiao was controlling the fight, since he is an aggressor, he would have had Marquez on the ropes and in the corners and landed several damaging shots, all while staying generally in range, but he didn't, and his head was snapped back several times. If he was in range and found a good way to close the distance, he would have made Marquez trade with him which would have allowed Pacquiao to chop him down. He didn't. Marquez controlled the tempo, the distance, and implemented his counter-attack strategy without letting Pacquiao get comfortable or even in his rhythm, as you can see by the disappointed and frustrated look on Pacquiao's face round after round. All this amounts to controlling the fight. Some rounds were close, but I saw an old, slower, and weaker fighter dominate Pacquiao for some of those rounds.

[daggum]

calzaghe destroyed hopkins

[KFC(Fforfloyd)]

I gave round 4 to Marquez, not because he landed the hardest punch of the round, but because aggregately I felt he did more damage than Pacquiao that round.

yah but the way judges score and the only true way is base on 4 criterias

-clean and hard punches
-defense
-ring generalship
-"effective aggression"

where's the other 3 parts of the equation?