NOOB mistake to base Toney/Lebedev on Jones/Lebedev

[Lucky Jim]

oh no, im not acting like lebedev will blow toney away, but i just don't think toney will win or draw (like roy was doing). . . Lebedev isn't a volume puncher, but he does have better work rate than toney. Also, his power IS VERY GOOD! Toney's is well below average for the weight. while 9-3 sounds wide, it's only 3 rounds away from a draw. . . so if there are "3 close rounds", im just assuming they will go in lebedev's favor. . . MY MAIN POINT was that you cannot base Toney's performance on Jones's.

My secondary point, to support that conclusion, is the DRASTIC difference in styles! Toney is FLAT FOOTED and VERY STATIONARY. . . While he's not an easy target to hit cleanly and hurt, HE IS an easy target to hit. . . I expect Toney to snap Lebedev's head back some, but I just think he can't hit him hard enough and often enough to discourage Lebedev from firing away. . . I could be wrong, though.

EITHER WAY, if Toney wins, IT WILL NOT look ANYTHING like the way Roy was winning, or close to winning.

Toney has been **** for *years* -- losing weight is not going to magically restore his reflexes. And given that he's quickly dropped 57 pounds if he makes weight for this fight, he's no doubt lost muscle tissue and strength as well.

Toney's jockriders are going to be crying and making more excuses for the man when Lebedev is through with him.

[SharpBoxing]

How can you call a guy going to foreign territory to fight, having to cut so much and struggling day in, day out in the gym, working his ass off UNMOTIVATED?

Look at weight he has lost, the video's of him putting gruelling hours into the gym, how can you say he is unmotivated?

he is going to Russia because nobody in the USA gives a **** about him anymore. This is his last chance to get a huge paycheck.

[rochemback]

Lebedev is slow and your average cruiserweight. I don't even particularly think his power is what it is made out to be, my cat could K.O Roy at this stage, Enzo & Alexeev.

Toney is going to school him & K.O him.

Even a hideously out of shape Toney I fail to see how Lebedev beats him.
He comes in straight lines, he panics, has no work rate, don't use angles, has slow feet & his handspeed is average.

I think he's just getting this ridiculous hype because of his new trainer, that & most of his fanbase are Russian *******s.

Want to bet points?
My 200 million on Lebedev versus your 100 million on Toney.

[xAUGUSTUSx]

I think Lebedev has a questionable chin. He gets easily frustrated & his workrate is pish!

James is in superb shape & has had months to prepare for this, what makes you think it'll be Toneys stamina coming into play?
Lebedev has been 12 rounds once.

Lebedev is a flat-footed southpaw slugger, Toney eats guys like him for breakfast.
Sure Toney is washed up but you have to take into account Lebedevs opponents, his best wins - Alexeev, Enzo & Jones.

Also people think Lebedev will K.O James lol, if a prime H/w Sam Peter couldn't K.O a fat, out of shape, unmotivated Toney then there is noway in hell Lebedev K.O's a highly motivated, in shape Toney.

You could'nt be so wrong

[xAUGUSTUSx]

Try not to get yourself too worked up.. Toney is a touch son of a ***** and he won't be backing off and he can take the best heavyweights punches... If lebedev wins this he is going to have to majorly outwork Toney .. you are acting like this isn't even going to be a fight.. you'll be very suprised

He never got hit flush by Heavyweights. Lebedev has some serious power in both hands. He's also very accurate. The TS's point is that most of you on NSB don't know anything about Lebedev other than what you seen in the Jones fight. This might be the time where Toney's natural talent does'nt pull through. He spent most of his camp losing weight. If you keep telling yourself that Lebedevs a bum you're being ignorant.

[-Antonio-]

Are there any articles going around about how Toney looks in camp? Him being thinner doesn't mean much to me. The man is still 41 years old and has a lot of mileage on him. His style is more based on his reflexes and instincts more than a guy like Hopkins. Once that's gone Toney's in trouble. Because he couldn't even move his feet in his prime.

[SharpBoxing]

You could'nt be so wrong

Exactly, people need to watch the Huck fight. He has good in and out movement and throws nice combos to the body. Tony is getting stopped

[Khmelnytsky]

Lebedev is slow and your average cruiserweight. I don't even particularly think his power is what it is made out to be, my cat could K.O Roy at this stage, Enzo & Alexeev.

Toney is going to school him & K.O him.

Even a hideously out of shape Toney I fail to see how Lebedev beats him.
He comes in straight lines, he panics, has no work rate, don't use angles, has slow feet & his handspeed is average.

I think he's just getting this ridiculous hype because of his new trainer, that & most of his fanbase are Russian *******s.

You are making out he's had to do it overnight.
Lets say he does hit 200lbs, what is he going to rehydrate to?

What is Lebedev, 195? and a weak, small 195lber at that?
If anything this could do Toney favours.

You're all making out he needs to be super ripped & had the reflexes of a 94' Toney. Lebedev is a very limited fighter & IMO couldn't beat a 60yr old Toney that had been retired for over a decade.

Toney has had a year to shed what is the equivalent of 1lb a week, he is working with Amir Assaid.
I've seen footage of him on the pads, even bags which he don't use, doing plyometrics, sparring etc and Toney looks sharp.

Lebedevs sparring = Wayne Braithwaite who is nothing like Toney & floored Lebedev heavily to the point Tyszu had to stop it.

My 50mil to yours, I'm picking Toney.

I think Lebedev has a questionable chin. He gets easily frustrated & his workrate is pish!

James is in superb shape & has had months to prepare for this, what makes you think it'll be Toneys stamina coming into play?
Lebedev has been 12 rounds once.

Lebedev is a flat-footed southpaw slugger, Toney eats guys like him for breakfast.
Sure Toney is washed up but you have to take into account Lebedevs opponents, his best wins - Alexeev, Enzo & Jones.

Also people think Lebedev will K.O James lol, if a prime H/w Sam Peter couldn't K.O a fat, out of shape, unmotivated Toney then there is noway in hell Lebedev K.O's a highly motivated, in shape Toney.

Dancov i'v quoted all of your brilliant analysis of Lebedev so we can revisit it post fight.

You could'nt be so wrong

Thank you for this.

It doesn't appear that he lost 50 some odd pounds all at once during this camp, it seems he's been dropping weight for sometime and probably entered camp much less than the 257 he weighed in his last fight...

When he first came to Russia probably about a month ago he weight 215.

If all Toney has to do is worry about being hit with one particular punch, in this case the left land, then I think he has a good chance to keep Lebedev off balance and falling over himself into Toney while he lays against the ropes and within the pocket. Lebedev does need to plant his feet and he also needs a bit of space to get his shots off, if he off balance and missing he may find himself eating clean shots when he doesn't expect them.

IMO Toney is not going to worry so much about the other shots in the combination, only the left hand that Leb is trying to setup. Toney is everything you said about being old, but I don't think he will ever have a problem avoiding one big shot especially when he knows that's all you really have.

Still though, there is no way to know how that weight loss will affect him so it's really hard to predict anything on James' part, Lebedev should be able to win this with workrate regardless of whether he has success with his big left. It resembles somewhat Toney-Jirov, althought I'm not expecting to see Toney anywere near the form he had then and Lebedev isn't as fast or active as Jirov...still, it's closer to this fight than Jones-Lebedev

Both being left handed Russia southpaws and good body punchers with power are the only similarities. Jirov fought as ****** a fight as he possibly could and Lebedev's style and stratagy will not resemble Jirov at all.

[Cassius Liston]

If ledev K.O's toney, who do we send next?

I'd say Hopkins to extend his legacy

[Cash Cow]

I see your typical mayweather obsessed noob like cash cow basing their predictions on the toney/lebedev fight off jones surprising performance (before the brutal K0) against Lebedev. . .

YES, while Toney isn't nearly as shot as Jones, he utilizes a COMPLETELY different style that favors Lebedev. . . Jones still is fleeter of hand and foot than toney and lebedev, so he was able to fight off the back-foot utilizing movement. He was able to keep Lebedev from planting his feet and letting his hands go, especially his deadly left hand; indeed, by forcing him to constantly change directions and "walk him down", he took away Lebedev's strengths.

Toney, however, will stand in the pocket and counter-punch and pick shots off. Lebedev will be able to plant his feet and set the left hand up off combinations. Toney just doesn't have the stamina, speed, or power to take advantage of his technique advantage. Sure, he will definitely snap Leb's head back a few times with some nice counters, but since Lebedev is a southpaw, and is left hand happy (toney is best at countering right hands), his youth, strength, and stamina will prevail. He will outwork Toney en route to a 9-3 decision.

I will bump this thread...