Not to try and deflate the hype for December, but...

Collapse
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • TintaBoricua
    Waiting on MvC4...
    Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
    • Oct 2007
    • 3354
    • 470
    • 166
    • 9,466

    #1

    Not to try and deflate the hype for December, but...

    I got to thinking about the fight between Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito in December and while I'm sure a lot of us who were there to see the first fight while it was happening came out of it in pure shock and awe, we're now thinking about the same thing for the rematch. It was a fight that people were talking about well before the first fight ever took place. Hardcore boxing fans were saying, "Wow...could you imagine those two in the ring together? That'd be a war." Not only did Bob Arum put them together for a fight fan's dream match, we were expecting a war, it was probably one of the few occasions where the fight actually lived up to, if not surpassed, its hype. Power punches left and right, an undefeated fighter's record on the line, an underdog looking to get a signature win in his career, blood, drama, and top it all off...a dramatic late round upset that sent shockwaves through the boxing world.

    Three years later, they're obviously no where near as relevant or as fearsome as before. Both have taken their share of damage since then but there's always been an attraction for a grudge rematch, especially when you take into account the Puerto Rican-Mexican rivalry which adds a whole new dimension of contempt in the affair.

    However, I've been thinking about this rematch and got to thinking that it won't be as dramatic as the first. I've said that the anticipation will be greater than the fight itself. History tells us that, in the majority of cases, a rematch is not as good as the first fight. We look at fights such as:

    Morales Barrera II
    Ali Frazier II
    Gatti Ward II
    Leonard Hearns II
    Leonard Duran II
    Tyson-Concepcion II
    Martínez-Williams II
    Pavlik-Taylor II
    Bute-Andrade II

    ^^^These were all rematches of which the FIRST FIGHTS were dramatic, back-and-forth, fight-of-the-year winners (or at least candidates) in their respective years. All these rematches (in my personal opinion) were not as good as the first ones. Barrera-Morales II had some action, but nowhere near the drama and competitiveness of the first fight. Gatti-Ward II had Ward in serious trouble early in the fight, but it wasn't as great as the first fight (Gatti was pretty comfortably in the lead in the rematch).

    There are exceptions to the rules of course. You could probably say that JMM-Pacquiao II or Marquez/Vasquez II were actually more dramatic than their first fights (actually, I'd say Marquez/Vasquez is the only trilogy out there that actually got better with every fight...excluding the fourth fight). But anyway, I start to think about why is it that rematches aren't as good as the first fights. I come to the conclusion that when two fighters meet the first time, they don't know how their opponent will measure up to them. They don't know how tough they're going to be, exactly how strong his punches are, etc. Nobody's sure of how far his opponent is willing to go to get that win under his belt. In a rematch, you already have a general idea of what mistakes you can capitalize on and what you can fine-tune in your arsenal to better suit your fight strategy...even if it means turning it into a "boring" fight. That's my theory, anyway. But the tendency's there...first fights are usually more dramatic than the second.

    This is why I think Cotto-Margarito II, while still likely to be an action-packed fight in a sell-out crowd in Madison Square Garden, it won't be as good as the first one. I hope I'm wrong, though.

    What do you all think?

    Last edited by TintaBoricua; 10-30-2011, 03:32 PM.
  • Bombs
    And down goes Mayweather
    Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
    • May 2010
    • 3187
    • 285
    • 201
    • 9,662

    #2
    You make a good and solid point but I respectfully disagree.

    The circumstances here will force the fight to be highly competitive and exciting. Why?

    Margarito's circumstances:

    - Caught cheating and suspended, desperate to get back to where he was and prove he wasn't cheating. This is a hungry and desperate fighter.

    He might not be the same old Margarito after the wars he's been in but he's a mexican warrior with mexican pride. He still believes he is one of the top names at the division and rightfully he is because when you think abou it he can present problems to any WW today.

    - He was given a chance against Pac and wasn't able to pull thru, he knows how big of a fight this is since this proves two things:

    1. He becomes more relevant and reclaims part of what he had going AND he proves beat Cotto without loaded gloves.

    2. This guy is going to come out swinging for the fences and putting pressure similar to Pacs or even worse. This is the last stand for a desperate man.


    It only takes on desperate and willing fighter to get some fireworks... but fortunately, the other one has circumstances of his own that push him to win this fight at all cost.



    Cotto's circumstances:


    - Chance to ger revenge on his first and one of two losses against a guy he himself suspect had loaded gloves.

    - Written off by many as being already washed up.

    - Chance to make bigger money and cement his legacy as truly a WW great. The man has only 2 defeats without ducking ANYBODY and has a chance to avenge one of them.

    - And the most important of them all, pride as a fighter, father/husband of family and man. This guy and his family and team are sure he cheated against them.


    Not to mention Cotto started training 2 weeks more than he usually does.

    If these things don't tell you they are going at it with all they have, I don't know what will my good friend.

    The circumstances are perfect to see a really interesting and intriguing fight AT THE LEAST. But in reality, it will be a fight with a lot of exciting moments and the things riding on the line for each will put up the stakes higher and their hears and determination will come out and show.

    These are the kind of fights the sports needs, it goes beyond a matchup. There's history, personal motivations and reasons involved here that go beyond simple boxing bad blood.

    Comment

    • BattleAxePurist
      LayinTrapsSplittinSkulls
      Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
      • Apr 2011
      • 5376
      • 90
      • 47
      • 11,853

      #3
      The fact that arum loaded up on the undercard makes me su****ious that he might know something about the main event possiablly that margs face won't hold up and this will resemble Marq-Vaq IV more than anything else so he's got a safety blanket with the unders.

      Comment

      • TintaBoricua
        Waiting on MvC4...
        Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
        • Oct 2007
        • 3354
        • 470
        • 166
        • 9,466

        #4
        Originally posted by Bombs
        You make a good and solid point but I respectfully disagree.

        The circumstances here will force the fight to be highly competitive and exciting. Why?

        Margarito's circumstances:

        - Caught cheating and suspended, desperate to get back to where he was and prove he wasn't cheating. This is a hungry and desperate fighter.

        He might not be the same old Margarito after the wars he's been in but he's a mexican warrior with mexican pride. He still believes he is one of the top names at the division and rightfully he is because when you think abou it he can present problems to any WW today.

        - He was given a chance against Pac and wasn't able to pull thru, he knows how big of a fight this is since this proves two things:

        1. He becomes more relevant and reclaims part of what he had going AND he proves beat Cotto without loaded gloves.

        2. This guy is going to come out swinging for the fences and putting pressure similar to Pacs or even worse. This is the last stand for a desperate man.


        It only takes on desperate and willing fighter to get some fireworks... but fortunately, the other one has circumstances of his own that push him to win this fight at all cost.



        Cotto's circumstances:


        - Chance to ger revenge on his first and one of two losses against a guy he himself suspect had loaded gloves.

        - Written off by many as being already washed up.

        - Chance to make bigger money and cement his legacy as truly a WW great. The man has only 2 defeats without ducking ANYBODY and has a chance to avenge one of them.

        - And the most important of them all, pride as a fighter, father/husband of family and man. This guy and his family and team are sure he cheated against them.


        Not to mention Cotto started training 2 weeks more than he usually does.

        If these things don't tell you they are going at it with all they have, I don't know what will my good friend.

        The circumstances are perfect to see a really interesting and intriguing fight AT THE LEAST. But in reality, it will be a fight with a lot of exciting moments and the things riding on the line for each will put up the stakes higher and their hears and determination will come out and show.

        These are the kind of fights the sports needs, it goes beyond a matchup. There's history, personal motivations and reasons involved here that go beyond simple boxing bad blood.
        I understand that this is Margarito's last stand. I actually think he's got more desperation than Cotto has determination. Margarito has got a LOT of pressure riding on him because this is basically it if he loses again. He's 1-2 in his last three fights (in nearly three years by the time the fight happens). I understand Cotto's taking his training camp very seriously because nothing will be more painful than losing by KO//TKO...to a Mexican...in Madison Square Garden. There's a lot of bragging rights riding on this but the same can be said for nearly all the other rematches as well. I'm hyped up as much as the next fight fan (or Puerto Rican), but I just don't see it being as exciting as the first. By no means do I think that it'll be a stinker, though. Not by a longshot.

        Originally posted by RyunosukeRonin
        The fact that arum loaded up on the undercard makes me su****ious that he might know something about the main event possiablly that margs face won't hold up and this will resemble Marq-Vaq IV more than anything else so he's got a safety blanket with the unders.
        I've thought about that as well. Margarito NEVER takes his sunglasses off during interviews. Is it a mind game that he's employing? Who knows? But I've sometimes thought about the fight night ending in an unsual fashion (as was the case with Mayweather/Ortiz and Hopkins/Dawson). I could see the fight going in Margarito's favor only to have Cotto bust up that su****ious right eye and then have the doctor/ref stop it and all hell breaking loose on these boards, from "**** stoppage!" to "WTF?! Trilogy...NAO!" and that kind of stuff.

        I've had the fight running over and over in my head and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the sole reason why Cotto wins is because he busts up Antonio's eye. I really don't know what to expect in the end, though.
        Last edited by TintaBoricua; 10-30-2011, 04:05 PM.

        Comment

        • TintaBoricua
          Waiting on MvC4...
          Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
          • Oct 2007
          • 3354
          • 470
          • 166
          • 9,466

          #5
          This topic needs discussion...

          Comment

          • SCtrojansbaby
            Undisputed Champion
            Super Champion - 5,000-10,000 posts
            • Sep 2009
            • 5951
            • 136
            • 72
            • 12,653

            #6
            Margarito vs Cotto is probable the worst fight on the card. I am looking forward to

            Wolak vs Rodriguez, Rios vs Murray and Jones vs Lujan

            and even on the same day you have Mares vs Agbeko and Darch vs Moreno all better fights then Cotto Margarito 2

            Comment

            • TintaBoricua
              Waiting on MvC4...
              Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
              • Oct 2007
              • 3354
              • 470
              • 166
              • 9,466

              #7
              Originally posted by SCtrojansbaby
              Margarito vs Cotto is probable the worst fight on the card. I am looking forward to

              Wolak vs Rodriguez, Rios vs Murray and Jones vs Lujan

              and even on the same day you have Mares vs Agbeko and Darch vs Moreno all better fights then Cotto Margarito 2
              True. It's gonna' be a boxing overdose that day. A lot of good fights on that night...

              Comment

              • Phenom
                Phenomdeaux
                Unified Champion - 10,00-20,000 posts
                • May 2010
                • 12218
                • 494
                • 363
                • 101,474

                #8
                its a fight to determine who is the more shot boxer my money is on Margarito don't even know why people try to hype this fight when Margarito didn't have a meaningful win in over 3 years

                Comment

                • freedom213
                  Undisputed Champion
                  Platinum Champion - 1,000-5,000 posts
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 3388
                  • 112
                  • 164
                  • 10,016

                  #9
                  I like the examples the poster gave initially and have to agree that this could be a let down in regards to expectations. The only way this letdown happens is if one of the guys gets hurt and stopped early. To me the biggest reason why this fight will likely not disappoint is the fact that Margarito truly does know only one way to fight, face first and a tornado of punches. If Cotto can't put that jab on him early and hard make Margs reset and effectively move it will come down to who can break down the other guy first. Not sure if Cotto can win that battle.

                  I will say this time around I think Cotto will look much better simply because he knows what Margarito brings to the table, he will prepare for it as opposed to last time which I believe he and his team thought they would roll thru a one dimensional Margarito. Problem ended up being that Tony's one dimension is rather deep, with or without plaster.

                  Comment

                  • paulf
                    Undisputed Champion
                    Franchise Champion - 20,000+ posts
                    • Sep 2009
                    • 23697
                    • 3,324
                    • 2,092
                    • 1,052,140

                    #10
                    **** relevancy, **** how past-prime they may be, **** the circumstances.

                    This is the fight the fans want. Let's fookin 'ave it.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    TOP