Comments Thread For: Past, Present, Future: Reflections on a Whirlwind Run

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

By Lyle Fitzsimmons - Sometimes, it’s fun to be a boxing writer.

Aside from the weeks where the inbox is muddled with idiocy and others that are consumed by fallout when major events fall short, it’s sort of cool to have stretches where something’s always happening.

We’re in the middle of one of those right now.

For me, it started a couple weeks ago with the annual voting column for the International Boxing Hall of Fame. Seems the post-ballot piece in which I labeled Joe Frazier as “criminally” non-deserving of his place in Canastota has gotten more than a few people rankled.

I stand by my assertion that Joe doesn’t belong. And I continue to find it amusing that, rather than pointing to his resume to argue their cases for induction, those who disagree with me instead say, “Well, sure he’s questionable, but there are far worse reaches in there than him.”

Not exactly the way they teach verbal parry in debate class.

But I don’t necessarily disagree.

In retrospect, our man Joe may not be the first guy worthy of a culling, only the most celebrated and overrated inductee in proportion to his actual resume.

And if it’ll make anyone/everyone happy, I concede there are others now in the Hall who’d be better left on the does-not-qualify list as well – one Barry McGuigan, for example.

But please, for those even considering Arturo Gatti as ballot material, I beg of you… don’t.

Let’s not go through this again next year. [Click Here To Read More]

[Mzembe]

Lyle Fitzsimmons HoF

Hey Lyle,

I am going to use your logic to advance an argument that you should also try to sell.
If Joe Frasier and Arturo Gatti do not belong in the Hall of Fame (assuming you are right of course) then the following dirty dozen boxers do not belong there as well:-
1) Eric Morales (who has he beat that is relevant? Other than Pacman and even then that was a close fight. He got schooled by Zaheer Rahim like an amateur)
2) Marco Antonio Barrera (Who has he beat other than his fights with Pacman?)
3) Naseem Hamed (Lost to Barrera and went AWOL, the talent was there but the heart was missing)
4) Zab Judah (a bum who was exposed by Kotzya Tzu and has done nothing to earn the name "super")
5) Kelly Pavlik (exposed by Hopkins and none of his opponents is a hall of fame fighter)
6) Ricky Hatton (one dimensional fighter with only Kotsya Tzu on his resume)
7) Mike Tyson (name one single fighter that he beat before getting exposed by Buster Douglas other than Spinks, and he does nothing after his beat down by Douglas)
8) Winky Wright (Tito and Shane? That's it? Is that enough to get u to Canastota?)
9) Antonio Tarver (Take out Roy Jones, Tarver has done virtually nothing to live up to that KO)
10)Jermaine Taylor (Do I need to say anything about this dead man walking?)
11) Micky Ward (If Gatti doesn't belong in Canastota then he sure doesn't)
12) Hopkins (name one single fighter that is a hall of famer prior to his bout with Tito? And then right after he fights bums again before getting Oscar under his scalp. Two famous WW that he has used to ride his fame. After that, it's a run of small guys or famous guy that he can use to sell his "legendary" status. All of them bums!!!)

So based on your reasoning, you should include this 12 guys on your list as well since they are like Joe Frazier or Gatti and do NOT belong in Canastota!!!!

[gdub27]

Mike Tyson was the youngest to claim the belt and he KO'd Larry Holmes (a big name fighter who holds the HW record for the most title defenses) before Spinks. After Douglas and prison Tyson still reclamed the HW crown. Plus Tyson brought more fans to the sport than anyone not named Ali (after all it is called the hall of "fame"). Hopkins could've retired after Trinidad and he still gets in for defending the MW championship 21 times.

[Mzembe]

Do you know how old Larry Holmes was when Tyson beat him? He was done! Celebrating that win is the same as bums who are now beating an old and faded Roy Jones or an old Pernell Whitaker or Julio Caesar Chavez who were both beaten by plenty of bums.
A prime Larry Holmes would have destroyed Tyson.
Tyson did reclaim the HW title but against who? Give me one Hall of Famer that he beat? The answer is ZERO.

As for Hopkins, can you name one single fighter that is a hall of famer prior to Tito? Name just one single fighter!!! Don't google anyone, just for your own benefit, pick one fighter or even one fight that was a classic that Hopkins was involved in before he beat a WW in Tito??
The answer will be ZERO. These are FACTS and they are undisputed.

[StrangerInTown]

The Racket Squad: The Smokin' Gun

There are Saints who do not belong in The Vatican Virtue Hall of Fame, let alone being named blessed angels.
Jesus Pally! This is BOXING we are talking about. It has been without doubt the most corrupt sports entity on the planet.
And you wish to embark on a rant as to why Smokin' Joe or Gatti don't belong in it's Hall of Fame?
Wow. If Don King is in there, then Arnold Rothstein should be in Cooperstown.
The craft is a way of life that can lead to Ali, Pac Land or Quarry Country.
These are athletes who perform upon a stage with an entirely different scale of reference.
If you think Emmanuel Augustus or Mickey Ward do not represent the very best of what can be accomplished in a sporting event, then you live in a seperate reality then I do.
This is BOXING. It is the bizzaro world of competition. It's participants are from another plane of thought and drive.
The professional prizefighter cannot be judged by normal criteria.
He places his life on the line with each appearance in a contest.
It is Russian roulette of the body, mind and soul.
There is no Hall of Fame for that, is there?
Go and argue who is worthy of ultimate glory with the men who have laced 'em up.
As far as I am concerned, every pro fighter has earned a pension, a health plan and a shot at being remembered as an athete who exceeded expectations.
This racket is one tough gig baby.

[gdub27]

Do you know how old Larry Holmes was when Tyson beat him? He was done! Celebrating that win is the same as bums who are now beating an old and faded Roy Jones or an old Pernell Whitaker or Julio Caesar Chavez who were both beaten by plenty of bums.
A prime Larry Holmes would have destroyed Tyson.
Tyson did reclaim the HW title but against who? Give me one Hall of Famer that he beat? The answer is ZERO.

As for Hopkins, can you name one single fighter that is a hall of famer prior to Tito? Name just one single fighter!!! Don't google anyone, just for your own benefit, pick one fighter or even one fight that was a classic that Hopkins was involved in before he beat a WW in Tito??
The answer will be ZERO. These are FACTS and they are undisputed.

Holmes was 38 when Tyson KO'd him, 4 years later Holmes beat a then undeafeated gold medal winner in Mercer and then went 12 rounds with HW champ Holyfield, so I give Tyson some credit for the KO. Hopkins KO'd young Glen Johnson and gave prime Roy his best fight so far, but 21 MW defenses even against manditories gets him in the hall PERIOD. If it was that easy someone would've done it before or since. It is the hall of fame so name one fighter who had bigger events than Tyson, who sold more PPVs than Tyson, who sold more magazines than Tyson. Tyson gets viewers when he is racing birds on tv. This isn't the baseball hall of fame this is boxing, where Rocky Balboa even has a place.

[peter stark]

Sir, you write absolute nonsense. But, what else is new? These columns
are to get people to hit on the site several times a day and for that you need
'fresh meat', even if it's crocodile-tough.

Giving back the title to B-hop is to condone is particular type of cheating: anything to get a win or a disqualification. Winning by any means. It was
never clearer than in that fight that B-hop uses smoke and mirrors to win.
And bull****. Many of his opponents seem dazzled by it. Well, the clothes are off. The next decent fighter he faces--and I hope it's Erdei--will beat him from
pillar to post. I'll bet on it.