Lets honestly evaluate floyd's performance vs ortiz.

[Cash Cow]

roy has two prime "ATG's" in his resume, who are the ATG's in floyds resume?

Who are these All time Greats?..I can think of one..Hopkins...but he also lost to Hopkins..And trinidad @ LHW coming out of retirement and pudgy?

Dont say james toney...he is a GREAT Fighter skill wise...but he hasnt accomplished ALL TIME GREAT THINGS....come one..

people throw this ATG term around way to often

[gayfish]

it was disgusting. the ending i mean.

[sdcluser]

Ok to me floyd's reflexes are not what they were for the marquez fight. He got hit with a few shots that he would not have gotten hit with 3-4 years ago. Also floyd's handspeed definately looked slower in this fight. I'm not saying that because he wasn't landing often ortiz (Because he was landed a decent ammount) but to me he just doesn't look anywhere near as quick as people are saying he is and how he looked spectacular.

I think floyd was winning 3 rounds to 1 when the fight ended.

Floyd won fair and square in my eyes i'm just saying I think he is way past it and for all the training he did for this fight he is starting to look old.

Anyone else want to elaborate?

Handspeed is still very good.
Accuracy in counter punching is still VERY VERY good.

Footwork is definitely slower.
The reflex (reaction movement) is noticeably slower.
I don't think Ortiz is all that fast so I was kind of surprise Floyd got hit quite
a few times. This aspect would be the most troubling for an aging fighter. Reflex and footwork does not come back.

Even with this "slowdown", he is still excellent boxer. The bottom line is that Floyd should stay active and fight every 6-8 months and fight against Father Time and cement his legacy. In 2-3 years, new gen of fighters will move and fill up the vacuum.

[Carpe Diem]

Everyone is under the impression that Floyd "tries" to look and fight fast. Floyd focuses on being effective. He misses shots like anybody else whether at 24 or 34. He doesn't try to throw blistering combinations rather than focus on landing sharp counters. These guys are humans, not machines and they will not land 100% of their punches.

It's simply an expectation. Floyd is known for being a fast, slick fighter. So every time he misses one punch or gets grazed with a shot, it is thought that he is slipping.

I believe Floyd is simply just more comfortable, he's not edgy in the ring, he knows he is smart enough to not have to over do his power or speed. He's also been more of a stalker as of late and vs southpaws, he focuses more on walking them down. That will result in missing a few more punches, but he still lands at a consistently high connection %.

My point being that Floyd is not trying to be the fastest. Just the smartest.

"Not speed. Not power. Just timing and inches (distance)..." - Floyd Mayweather Jr.

These guys expects Floyd to land 50% of his total punches in any of his fights, and they expects his opponents to lands 0% of their total punches. It just shows that they truly(whether they'll admit it or not) thinks he's the current most complete Boxer in Boxing, and they expects him to be flawless in all of his performances. Anytime he gets hits flush, misses punches, fight less mobile, he's considered past prime and done as a Boxer.

[SplitSecond]

Who are these All time Greats?..I can think of one..Hopkins...but he also lost to Hopkins..And trinidad @ LHW coming out of retirement and pudgy?

Dont say james toney...he is a GREAT Fighter skill wise...but he hasnt accomplished ALL TIME GREAT THINGS....come one..

people throw this ATG term around way to often

james toney not an ATG?
are you kiddin? right discussion over then

edit: wait wait, discussion back on, in regards to toney not being an atg, how?

i'll conjure up a post now in a minute

[Barry Halls]

Who are these All time Greats?..I can think of one..Hopkins...but he also lost to Hopkins..And trinidad @ LHW coming out of retirement and pudgy?

Dont say james toney...he is a GREAT Fighter skill wise...but he hasnt accomplished ALL TIME GREAT THINGS....come one..

people throw this ATG term around way to often

Iran Barkley, Mccallum, Nunn, Reggie Johnson, Holyfield, Jirov.
Lets not forget he could have had more good solid wins if not for questionable judging.

Nah, thats just mediocre.

[jrosales13]

Iran Barkley, Mccallum, Nunn, Reggie Johnson, Holyfield, Jirov.
Lets not forget he could have had more good solid wins if not for questionable judging.

Nah, thats just mediocre.

To be fair, he started watching boxing when Floyd Jr broke into the scene. So he doesn't know most of those fighters. And, probably thing he remembers from Toney is getting beat by RJ and being a fat HW.

[Carpe Diem]

Could anyone name me another current Boxer that can limit his opponent to land 18% of his total punches, while fans still complains of him getting hit too much?

[SplitSecond]

Iran Barkley, Mccallum, Nunn, Reggie Johnson, Holyfield, Jirov.
Lets not forget he could have had more good solid wins if not for questionable judging.

Nah, thats just mediocre.

i was making a thread, but i thought it over and he doesn't deserve it

[Carpe Diem]

Round 1 was close, but I had to give it to Mayweather. I know one judge gave it to Ortiz, but what exactly did Ortiz do to win the round??? Floyd landed the sharper punches with the straight rights, and neither fighter did much. But, Mayweather landed the crisper punches and landed a few more punches than Ortiz.

Round 2 was close as well, with Mayweather still being a bit tentative in the way he was throwing. Ortiz got Floyd on the ropes a few times, but was he landing all those punches??? NO. He landed 8 power shots, 8 punches total since he only throws power punches pretty much, while Floyd landed 13. Most of Floyd's were straight right hands, but Ortiz had much more success in this round. I don't see how you could have given it to either fighter. I scored it even.

Round 3 was all Mayweather. He landed right hands, left hooks, quick counters, and Ortiz didn't do much at all.

Round 4 was all Mayweather for the first 2:00. He even had Ortiz hurt a bit at the opening of the round, when he actually threw a combo, and Ortiz looked dumb founded when he did that. However, the last minute till the headbutt, Ortiz managed to get Floyd on the ropes twice and landed 4-5 punches, while in between Mayweather landed more right hands, than the headbutt happened. Ortiz was being docked a point, and I feel Floyd won this round.

The main thing i see with people who critique everything FLoyd does is that they pay so much attention to when his opponents have him on the ropes for about a good 0:20 in a round, and land 4-5 punches, and they seemingly forget the other 2:40 where it seems like Floyd is landing at will. And they say his opponents were winning the round??? C'mon!

Watch the Mayweather-Judah fight. The first 4 rounds, Mayweather had a ton of trouble landing on Judah, but he started opening up in the 5th, and won the fight by a large margin. I remember watching Mayweather-Judah, and I think Floyd had only landed like 30% of his punches through round 4, while he ended up landing 47% of his punches. Floyd was also more active in this fight against Ortiz than in any other fight in a long time. He threw 210 punches in 4 rounds. Ortiz didn't throw nearly as much, mainly because Floyd was having success walking him down. Victor doesn't know how to fight backing up. I think Floyd struggles a bit with Southpaws in the early going (Rounds 1-3 or 4), but he finds himself and figures out what he can do. Against Ortiz, he started opening up after round 2, and a boxing clinic was unfolding. It wasn't dominate, mainly because it lasted 4 rounds, and I am just upset it didn't last longer. Ortiz is a fast starter, Floyd is a slow starter. He neutralized Ortiz' best weapon, his explosive offense, and got hit 26 times in 4 rounds. Not to mention the rabbit punches on the back of Floyd's head, I know you saw those and those were landed punches for some reason.

Mayweather looked pretty good.

Great post...