Comments Thread For: Williams-Lara: Three Judges Worked Heavy on Fight Night

[Medved]

Everyone in this thread except the one guy who's uncle judged is a moron. It also isn't written as though it's an excuse, more so a complicating factor and potential issue. One thing this website has taught me though is that boxing fans are quite possibly the bitchiest sports fans in the world. What reason could there be for these three working almost every fight, when there were other judges present even? Makes no sense on the part of the commission. The commission should answer to this, imo. This doesn't excuse the judges, but it is a circumstance which deserves consideration. And props to Boxingscene for raising it.

Wrong, I dont know the age of the other 2 judges but Donald Givens is pushing 80-85 years old, he is a Trainer/Coach to lots of fighters and has no experience, he only trains black fighters and if you do some research he has connections to ahem ahem "Fighters"

Pretty convenient you take a dude who trains these dudes and has no judging experience and you put him into a big fight like this? Check out some of his other scorecards, dude had a 1-6-0 dude winning 39-37 against a 6-0 dude when the other judges had it 36-40, 37-39.

Plus one of the other judges is the SON of USBO President, hmmmmm!

Face it, they brought in judges who were bribed, these dudes are all retired and dont care about Judging, they made more money in that fight then they would earn judging the next 200 fights. They dont care about their Judging career, they are all old and retired.

If you are over 65 you shouldnt be able to judge, your reflexes and reaction time slows down. We are putting fighters careers in the hands of senile old farts who get paid peanuts, even if you prove they took a bribe (hard to do) nothing will ever happen because they are retired.

This is why we need a central authority on judging where there are real consequences and STRICT TESTING AND QUALITY ASSURANCE.

Any clown can become a Judge, just pay some money for a license, 90% of judges are probably not allowed behind a car but we let them decide fighters careers? Gtfo

[argminasyan]

Here are some facts:

1) Judges are not picked by the Athletic Commision
2) Judges are picked by the promoter of the event
3) Judges are paid by the promoter of the event
4) Dan Goosen is either a cheater(good chance)
5) or hes an extremely cheap mother****er who didnt want to pay for room and stay for more judges to be involved on the entire card (100% true)

[CubanGuyNYC]

Wrong, I dont know the age of the other 2 judges but Donald Givens is pushing 80-85 years old, he is a Trainer/Coach to lots of fighters and has no experience, he only trains black fighters and if you do some research he has connections to ahem ahem "Fighters"

Pretty convenient you take a dude who trains these dudes and has no judging experience and you put him into a big fight like this? Check out some of his other scorecards, dude had a 1-6-0 dude winning 39-37 against a 6-0 dude when the other judges had it 36-40, 37-39.
Plus one of the other judges is the SON of USBO President, hmmmmm!

You're the second poster I've seen who appears to know how these judges scored, even round by round. I tried finding this information, including a search on the NJSACB website, to no avail. What is your source? Can you post the round-by-round scores for the Lara-Williams fight?

[CubanGuyNYC]

Here are some facts:

1) Judges are not picked by the Athletic Commision
2) Judges are picked by the promoter of the event
3) Judges are paid by the promoter of the event
4) Dan Goosen is either a cheater(good chance)
5) or hes an extremely cheap mother****er who didnt want to pay for room and stay for more judges to be involved on the entire card (100% true)

If this is so, that means there's a built-in conflict of interest in every event we see. How do you know this information? Are you a promoter, or actively involved in running "shows"?

[Drunken Cat]

Wrong, I dont know the age of the other 2 judges but Donald Givens is pushing 80-85 years old, he is a Trainer/Coach to lots of fighters and has no experience, he only trains black fighters and if you do some research he has connections to ahem ahem "Fighters"

Pretty convenient you take a dude who trains these dudes and has no judging experience and you put him into a big fight like this? Check out some of his other scorecards, dude had a 1-6-0 dude winning 39-37 against a 6-0 dude when the other judges had it 36-40, 37-39.

Plus one of the other judges is the SON of USBO President, hmmmmm!

Face it, they brought in judges who were bribed, these dudes are all retired and dont care about Judging, they made more money in that fight then they would earn judging the next 200 fights. They dont care about their Judging career, they are all old and retired.

If you are over 65 you shouldnt be able to judge, your reflexes and reaction time slows down. We are putting fighters careers in the hands of senile old farts who get paid peanuts, even if you prove they took a bribe (hard to do) nothing will ever happen because they are retired.

This is why we need a central authority on judging where there are real consequences and STRICT TESTING AND QUALITY ASSURANCE.

Any clown can become a Judge, just pay some money for a license, 90% of judges are probably not allowed behind a car but we let them decide fighters careers? Gtfo

My first reaction was blatant corruption, and I still pretty much stand by it. I just think this article provides new and useful information. I wasn't trying to suggest by any means that this closes the case, and at the very most I would take it as a single, and in the grand scheme non-major factor based on the fact that at the end the day the judges are responsible for their verdicts. I maintain that this story presents useful information and that Boxingscene is good to uncover it. But your post has a lot of very good information too.

[CubanGuyNYC]

My first reaction was blatant corruption, and I still pretty much stand by it. I just think this article provides new and useful information. I wasn't trying to suggest by any means that this closes the case, and at the very most I would take it as a single, and in the grand scheme non-major factor based on the fact that at the end the day the judges are responsible for their verdicts. I maintain that this story presents useful information and that Boxingscene is good to uncover it. But your post has a lot of very good information too.

Lots of good and interesting information coming in piecemeal. It's like a jigsaw puzzle. If you haven't already seen it, here's something I posted on another thread that you might find useful.

The following are excerpts from an article by ESPN's Dan Rafael, regarding the recent suspensions of the judges in the Lara-Williams fight:

In a letter obtained by ESPN.com, New Jersey commissioner Aaron M. Davis wrote to Lara promoter Dave Itskowitch of Golden Boy Promotions and Williams' promoter Dan Goossen informing them of the decision, which came after a video review of the fight with the judges.

"The New Jersey State Athletic Control Board was responsible for assigning all three judges who scored this contest and decided the outcome," Davis wrote in the letter. "At the conclusion of the contest, this agency had concerns about the final scores. Due to these concerns we decided to conduct a full review of the scoring.

"As part of this review, the NJSACB called in all three judges to our Trenton offices and conducted a full analysis of the scoring of each round."

Davis said that the review of the fight was complete and the NJSACB "has not found any evidence of bias, fraud, corruption or incapacity on the part of any of the judges. However, we remain unsatisfied with the scoring of the contest even after hearing the explanations from the judges.

"The NJSACB does not have the legal authority under these circumstances to invalidate the official result. This is due to the fact that all scoring is a matter of subjective judgment. In a similar fashion we cannot mandate a rematch. However, our opinion is that a rematch may be warranted.

"This agency has placed all three judges on indefinite suspension. Further, all three judges will be required to undergo additional training prior to their return to professional boxing judging."

Davis went further in apologizing for the lackluster judging.

"Any contestant who enters a ring or cage in our state deserves the best officiating that we can provide," Davis wrote. "While we do not mean to diminish Mr. Williams' competitive spirit and exciting style, we feel that we did not provide our best officiating on July 9. Because we have a rich history of boxing and combat sports in New Jersey, we aspire to consistently improve in our officiating and strive to learn from this situation. We have no further comment on this matter at the current time."

[delpilar]

More excuses!

Let's have more excuses to cover up the more probable reason of monkey business on the part of those Three Stooges!

[Medved]

You're the second poster I've seen who appears to know how these judges scored, even round by round. I tried finding this information, including a search on the NJSACB website, to no avail. What is your source? Can you post the round-by-round scores for the Lara-Williams fight?

I just checked Boxrec for his name and I saw all the fights he judged, and you can see what each judge has it. btw found this gem

Well Mr. Givens, guess for you even rounds are not so RARE, not only he forget this regulation once he scored both the 3rd round and the 12th round as a draw and Mr. Whitaker as well seemed to think both men won the round.

Mr. Givens as well had a change of heart on his score card and changed the score from 10-9 in favor of Lara to 10-9 in favor of Williams in the second.

Go here
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...8192&cat=judge

Scroll down to 6th fight, its the same judges, look at the diffirence in scoring. then check the fighters RECORDS, its a complete joke

[CharliesRecords]

How can they be fatigue, they were just sitting on their asses judging the fights....lets just say it like it is they are a bunch of ****ing idiots and shouldn't be invovled in boxing, especially that b*tch, what the hell was she doing there? waiting for the boxer's laundry?

[uoykcuf]

The judges were too tired to judge the fight. Maybe they should stop hiring 90 yr old men to judge a fight then. They're probably falling asleep! They're not even doing anything other than judging a fight and getting paid for it. Yeah, their job is so stressful!