Comments Thread For: One Time or a Hundred, Ali-Tyson Result Never Changes

[sdcluser]

IMHO, Joe Louis was the best heavyweight champion. When Ali went away for three and a 1/2 years and came back, he wasn't the same and I believe he lost all three fights to Ken Norton (you could make a case for Ali with one but the other two Ali lost).

Ali was in the deepest HW with very diverse styles and competition.
Joe Louis has better resume but just look at Conn vs. Louis I.
Now substitute replace Conn with Ali....

[sdcluser]

Joe Frazier was able to land on Ali fairly often. Tyson was much faster with his hands, head movement, and foot movement.

Now Im not saying Tyson would definitly win, but he would certaintly not be an easy fight for Ali

No it wouldn't be an easy fight.

[zero15]

I think the writer of this article is off on his prediction. I know this is meant to be persuasive but a lot of the points he made can be refuted. Its absurd to say a fighter wins 100% of the time, I think we were all reminded of this in Kirkland's match with Ishida a couple weeks ago. While Tyson did not have the same level of competition as Ali that does not, by any means, make him a pushover in this fight. Tyson, in his prime, utilized a very effective defensive style that would be difficult for any fighter to overcome. His hand speed and power were phenomenal, if Frazier could land some powerful punches on Ali you can be certain Iron Mike would.

[sdcluser]

I think the writer of this article is off on his prediction. I know this is meant to be persuasive but a lot of the points he made can be refuted. Its absurd to say a fighter wins 100% of the time, I think we were all reminded of this in Kirkland's match with Ishida a couple weeks ago. While Tyson did not have the same level of competition as Ali that does not, by any means, make him a pushover in this fight. Tyson, in his prime, utilized a very effective defensive style that would be difficult for any fighter to overcome. His hand speed and power were phenomenal, if Frazier could land some powerful punches on Ali you can be certain Iron Mike would.

Agree it's not 100%. Keep in mind Ali was slower when he fought Frazier. Ron Lyle and Chuvalo both said that Ali was slower. The prime Ali can dance longer and faster.

[LeadUppercut]

Styles make fights. Cus D'Amato's prediction of what would happen in Frazier vs Ali one was spot on, even down to Frazier landing that left late. Tyson is stylisticaly not a good match up for Ali. It's a 50/50 fight.

I agree man. Whilst Ali was the better fighter, styles make fights. Tyson was a student of the game, and much more skilled than most of Ali's opponents, including the big names. Add in Mike's power, and that fight has 50/50 written all over it with Ali being at most a slight favorite.

[sdcluser]

I agree man. Whilst Ali was the better fighter, styles make fights. Tyson was a student of the game, and much more skilled than most of Ali's opponents, including the big names. Add in Mike's power, and that fight has 50/50 written all over it with Ali being at most a slight favorite.

LMAO. Hmmm...no.

[jrosales13]

LMAO. Hmmm...no.

I agree, I would name Sonny Liston as one. People forget how good Liston was cuz' of his 2 fights with Ali. But, he was very skilled fighter, that jab of his amazing. Arguably the greatest Jab in HW history. And, was no joke. It took somebody as special as Ali to end his reign.

And, I think Ali would have won the fight before the fight even started. He would of talked and got in Tyson head during the build up.

If Ali was not intimidated by Liston or by Foreman then he damn sure wasn't going to be intimidated by anything Tyson did. However, Tyson would not have been able to handle Ali verbal assault, Ali would have gotten in his head and beat him before the fight even start.

[PEBBLES!]

When Ali went away for three and a 1/2 years and came back, he wasn't the same and I believe he lost all three fights to Ken Norton (you could make a case for Ali with one but the other two Ali lost). Ali also got a gift decision against Jimmy Young.

Ali defeated Jimmy Young, proper. He also defeated Norton 2 out of 3 times. I know it's a bitter pill for Louis apologists to swallow but trying to diminish Ali's resume by claiming he was the recipient of gift decisions isn't going to work. Ali's resume trumps Louis'. He defeated the higher number of Top 10 ranked fighters and defeated the higher quality of heavyweights.

[edgarg]

By Lyle Fitzsimmons - It doesn’t operate on a set timetable.

Because Leron and I work in the same building but in different departments, our occasional meetings are by chance while grabbing coffee, stopping to chat up a lovely friend or heading to a mandated company gathering at the end of a given month.

But regardless of when they occur, the encounters always go the same way.

The discussion topic inevitably turns to boxing and my 30-something colleague immediately begins singing the praises of his generation’s signature heavyweight champion – Mike Tyson.

It happened again last week.

“The guy was a wrecking machine, man. Nobody in the world could stand in there with him at his best,” he chirped. “Did you see what he did to Michael Spinks? The guy was scared to death.”

I nodded politely, tossed in a “Yeah, he sure was” in his general direction every now and then, and indulged my pal his recurring worship.

Until, that is, he went a little too far.

“There’s not a heavyweight champion in history that he wouldn’t have beat.”

I was momentarily stunned.

But by the time the last syllable fully cleared his lips, I let go with a counter that befits my extra decade of life – and, by osmosis, boxing knowledge. [Click Here To Read More]

I think this is the worst article that this writer has ever written for BoxingScene. And considering the mediocrity of most of his others, that's saying a lot. The false and phony way in which he leads into it, the little "tale" about his (mythical) friend) and such crap deserves a hefty "thumbs down". As for the topic, I happen to disagree with him but if I agreed, my opinion as to the merit of the article would be the same. There are posters I've read on this site who have written far better posts than this article.

Tyson, short, solid, lightning fast, bobbing weaving attack relentless attack style, VERY hard to hit or hit clean, combined with a KO punch in either hand, was made to beat guys like Ali who danced around, with their chins up in the air, and their hands low, thinking of how good they were. Tyson, in the ring, was ALL business.
,
I accept that every good fighter has his string of palookas, worn-outers, and never was's, and Tyson had them. But many of Ali's were title fights. Like never-was Brian London, about 30 odd wins, 10-12 KO losses, who just stood in a corner and allowed himself to be hit for over 2 rds until he just sat down. Henry Cooper, outweighed by over 30 lbs, with tissue paper brows GUARANTEED to split like a ripe tomato as soon as touched, also about 30 odd wins, with about 10-12 KO losses..... Richard Dunn, with about 30 wins, 10-12 KO losses.... and MANY others. Their main attribute was that they ALL were well used/worn out, and had MULTIPLE losses, mostly by KO. The fight results were ALL obvious, as soon as the name of the opponent was announced.

I SAW nearly all of these fights as they happened, and read all the informed opinions by all the experts at the time, The 3 examples of Ali at his best, Patterson, Williams, Folley, are particularly demonstrative. Many of his opponents were VERY near the end of their careers.

PATERSON, a former champion, a game tryer, but only a muscled up middleweight, well on the slide with about 45-50 fights and 5-6 losses nearly ALL by KO. (we all know about his 2 -1st rd KO's by Liston) outsized and also about 25-30 lbs outweighed. And he put up a very game fight although outmatched physically.

WILLIAMS, who still should have been in convalescence, recovering from having been shot by a cop in the stomach, with the loss of 11 ft of intestine, a kidney, spleen and more. Six months in hospital ready to die. I recall that part of the evidence at the trial or hearing of the cop was that if it hadn't been for his massive stomach muscle of about 6 inches, he would have been dead on the spot. He was a medical miracle recovery. He also had had over 70- fights with about 5 losses...ALL by KO. And, even at his best, he was painfully SLOW.......FOLLEY, at the end of his career, nearly 90 fights with 10-12 losses and about 7-8 KO's. And SLOW.

The purpose of this post is NOT to criticise Ali......although I legitimately could, as the vast majority of his title opponents were undeserving, well over the hill, some once good fighters, etc. but the article itself. I hope I have made this clear.

{BAD as the majority of Ali's opponents were, they took second place to Marciano's, whose opponents were nearly all, geriatric, REALLY worn out, either hopeless, or palookas, with records that would shame an old age pensioner}.

I didn't realise just HOW BAD the majority of Ali's opponents were, until I started to think about who they were, and WHAT they were when they fought Ali.

Maybe the opponents of all champions are a bunch of stooges, and we, the public have always been suckered by promoters into believing that they would be good opponents.

As for the winner of Ali-Tyson, I maintain my same opinion. Tyson, by a wearing beating.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Tyson vs Ali would have been a very good fight. I'd like to match a 21 year old Tyson who beat Spinks against a 25(?) year old Ali who beat Cleavland Williams. Funny thing is when they both got together on the Arsenial Hall show, years ago, both said they would have lost to the other. lol Well, Ali said "I was real fast, I didn't hit that hard but if he hit me..." and motioned he would have been put to sleep by Tyson. Both fighters have tremendous respect for each other because they know how great the other really was. We on the other hand don't know shiiit compared to them. If Ali said Mike could knock him out, you better believe it. If Mike said Ali was the greatest, you better believe it. If I had to pick, I'd pick Ali by UD. Tyson on the other hand though, could have been to fast and strong for Ali, you never know. Also, they say Tyson had great timing at his best, and thats exactly the kind of thing you need to catch a fighter like Ali. Either way, this subject that has been debated time and time again just proves people really do believe Tyson was one of the greatest in History. Who ever compares anyone to Ali as much as Tyson? Nobody.