Bert Sugar ''Sven Oktte Is A Greater Super Middleweight Than Roy Jones Jr''

[BattlingNelson]

after joe calzaghe beat eubank who was 31 at the time, he only lost to Carl Thompson and we all know what Thompson did to David Haye

When you are standing in a hole the first thing to do is stop digging. Steak just schooled you on Eubank/Toney.

I suggest you catch some sleep.

[Jim Jeffries]

Winner of the Super 6 probably passes them both.

That and Sugar must not've seen all of Ottke's "wins."

[TOBYLEE1]

after joe calzaghe beat eubank who was 31 at the time, he only lost to Carl Thompson and we all know what Thompson did to David Haye

David Haye was way ahead in that fight and gassed out.

[crold1]

Hardly surprising. Ottke has a great resumé at the weight and Jones wasnt there for that long. Besides such ranking is based on body of work rather than h2h.

Let me add that boxingscene's Cliff Rold also had Ottke higher when he ranked the divisions.

Sort of. Those ratings were an experiment with a formula that I wouldn't use again the same way. It was fun but flawed and came up with some odd results in some classes (even if some good ones in others). I'm sick. Once I started I was going to finish. Ottke was largely a fraud and that numbers based stuff could not compensate for the garbage that went on. I will post MY ratings there someday as I did in the original eight.

[jermainerambo]

David Haye was way ahead in that fight and gassed out.

David Haye got knockout he made haye quit wave the white flag the towel came out lol lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhWh3...ailpage#t=555s

chris eubank lost to the better fighters Steve Collins, Joe Calzaghe, Carl Thompson and he beat Nigel Benn, Michael Watson, Thulani Malinga, Juan Carlos Gimenez Ferreyra, Lindell Holmes and Graciano Rocchigiani


toney is a drugs cheat

[crold1]

To be more clear Bat, if I used the same standard as in the original eight pieces, ottke is barely top ten.

[Fox McCloud]

Jones Jr. had more defenses than I remembered actually.

Ottke had over 20 defenses though, even if a lot of them weren't spectacular.

It's hard to tell longevity to go to hell.

[Eastbay Giant]

Means nothing. SMW is a fairly new weight class. If he had Sven ranked over Roy on an all time pound for pound or "overall" list, well, then we might have something to talk about . . .

I don't have too much to add to this but what he said.

[BattlingNelson]

Sort of. Those ratings were an experiment with a formula that I wouldn't use again the same way. It was fun but flawed and came up with some odd results in some classes (even if some good ones in others). I'm sick. Once I started I was going to finish. Ottke was largely a fraud and that numbers based stuff could not compensate for the garbage that went on. I will post MY ratings there someday as I did in the original eight.

Nevertheless your mathematical approach gave an interesting exhibit in unbiased, objective rankings. Obviously there would be flaws, but it was an excellent base for argument.

Oh and calling Ottke 'largely a fraud' is stretching it IMO. He was a very good defensive fighter with some very good wins including some that weren't close. I'm not an Ottke fan by any means. In fact he bored me to sleep on occasions...

To be more clear Bat, if I used the same standard as in the original eight pieces, ottke is barely top ten.

Are you planning on doing your (subjective) all-time rankings in the 'new' divisions? That would be cool.

[crold1]

Nevertheless your mathematical approach gave an interesting exhibit in unbiased, objective rankings. Obviously there would be flaws, but it was an excellent base for argument.

Oh and calling Ottke 'largely a fraud' is stretching it IMO. He was a very good defensive fighter with some very good wins including some that weren't close. I'm not an Ottke fan by any means. In fact he bored me to sleep on occasions...



Are you planning on doing your (subjective) all-time rankings in the 'new' divisions? That would be cool.

It was only partly objective though. The formula design was chosen, making the structure subjective and then objectively funneling all the careers through it. I thought it was interesting and enjoyed doing it but could see where some were pulling their hair out.

On Ottke, yes, he was quite good. Going back to the amateurs, he was world class for a long time. However, to say he got a LOT of help as a pro is understating. It's one thing to say anyone can get a bad or close d on occasion. It's another to see 5-7 fights that could have been scored against along with the officiating of something like the Reid fight. On neutral turf, dude has at least four losses and none of those to world beaters.

And yes, eventually I will re-rate those classes so everything is evenly examined before I do a top 100 or 150 thing someday.

Someday being who the hell knows.