Comments Thread For: Seems Just Like Yesterday…And Yesterday ******

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

By Cliff Rold - Boxing in 2010 had a lot of positives.

Sometimes it was easy to miss them.

Boxing is a funny thing from the perspective of the audience. It’s event driven with only the most rare of fistic gems capable of making the educated fight fan the center of the office sports chatter. Mega-fights bridge the gap between boxing and the real world of sports in the 21st Century.

In 2010, the mega-fights teased but never came home to us. No matter how strong the year closed, no matter how good the year was for those appreciative of great boxing no matter the star power, what didn’t happen loomed larger than what did.

It wasn’t the only problem.

2010 was also a year plagued with cancellations, postponements, and replacement players. Every year has those but, in a year where the biggest fights (in this case, at Heavyweight and Welterweight) never came together, seeing two key players leave the Super Six Super Middleweight tournament or being forced to wait a little longer on Juan Manuel Lopez-Rafael Marquez stung more than usual. [Click Here To Read More]

[Dave Rado]

By Cliff Rold - By all accounts, the fighters were not holding up Klitschko-Haye. It was a matter of TV dates to maximize revenue.

You seem to me to be willing to give Haye the benefit of every possible sliver of doubt. He recently stated unequivocally the he has no interest in fighting either brother, ever, and that he will fight Chagaev and then retire. That won't maximise his revenue, it will mean he will miss out on by far the biggest payday of his career. I don't see how anyone can objectively conclude anything other than that he was simply looking for an excuse to get out of a fight he doesn't fancy because he knows he'd be humiliated in the ring.

He claims that he couldn't fight Wlad in July because he would have to fight Chagaev first, but that simply isn't true. If he signed now to fight Wlad in July (just as Adamek is apparently about to sign to fight Wlad in September, following Haye's pulling out), the WBA would almost certainly have accepted that unification and would not have forced Haye to fight Chagaev first. And even in the unlikely event that the WBA did enforce the mandatory, Chagaev would certainly have taken step-aside money if he'd been offered a good deal, (just as Ruiz did so that Haye could fight Valuev) - and there's a big enough pot to pay Chagaev a very good step aside fee while still giving Haye by far the biggest payday of his career. So there's no reason whatsoever why the fact that Wlad is fighting Chisora in April prevented Haye from signing to fight Wlad in July.

Furthermore, Haye hasn't even tried to come up with an excuse for not fighting Vitali in July. (He turned that fight down as well, not just a fight with Wlad on that date).

Finally, if he had a problem with July, there's no reason why he couldn't have signed now to fight one of the brothers in September - as Adamek is about to do. There was no problem with TV dates for a September fight.

Bottom line, Haye simply wants to retire with a paper belt still round his waist and has shown great ingenuity in coming up with one excuse after another over two years for not fighting either brother, and in persuading many journalists and much of the public that he's sincere.

[crold1]

You seem to me to be willing to give Haye the benefit of every possible sliver of doubt. He recently stated unequivocally the he has no interest in fighting either brother, ever, and that he will fight Chagaev and then retire. That won't maximise his revenue, it will mean he will miss out on by far the biggest payday of his career. I don't see how anyone can objectively conclude anything other than that he was simply looking for an excuse to get out of a fight he doesn't fancy because he knows he'd be humiliated in the ring.

He claims that he couldn't fight Wlad in July because he would have to fight Chagaev first, but that simply isn't true. If he signed now to fight Wlad in July (just as Adamek is apparently about to sign to fight Wlad in September, following Haye's pulling out), the WBA would almost certainly have accepted that unification and would not have forced Haye to fight Chagaev first. And even in the unlikely event that the WBA did enforce the mandatory, Chagaev would certainly have taken step-aside money if he'd been offered a good deal, (just as Ruiz did so that Haye could fight Valuev) - and there's a big enough pot to pay Chagaev a very good step aside fee while still giving Haye by far the biggest payday of his career. So there's no reason whatsoever why the fact that Wlad is fighting Chisora in April prevented Haye from signing to fight Wlad in July.

Furthermore, Haye hasn't even tried to come up with an excuse for not fighting Vitali in July. (He turned that fight down as well, not just a fight with Wlad on that date).

Finally, if he had a problem with July, there's no reason why he couldn't have signed now to fight one of the brothers in September - as Adamek is about to do. There was no problem with TV dates for a September fight.

Bottom line, Haye simply wants to retire with a paper belt still round his waist and has shown great ingenuity in coming up with one excuse after another over two years for not fighting either brother, and in persuading many journalists and much of the public that he's sincere.

DR:

I've been FIRM in the "Haye is holding up the show" camp for over a year. I think this time was a little different and I think there's game getting run on both sides by a couple big ego teams. Wlad declaring July too long to wait for a fight smacked more of getting even for the 2009 pull outs (which, to be fair, resulted when Haye found out he was likely to not get paid for fighting because of network problems) than any realistic need to fight (though I think, as well, it should be said there is NO reason he can't take both those fights in that time span and be fine so I can't see why Haye wouldn't wait).

Wlad is playing the I'm the real champ card; Haye is playing the "the revenue I'm brining is more' card. I think they'll work it out at some point.

As to Vitali, nothing is happening there until the signed Solis fight is out of the way. Let's see how this plays out by year's end. The words that come from fighters and their camps on these things don't have a great track record historically except for the part where they charge the max for the people to see it.

[Dave Rado]

I've been FIRM in the "Haye is holding up the show" camp for over a year.

I know, you were one of the very few journalists who were, and I appreciated it. But I can't go along with you on this one.

Wlad declaring July too long to wait for a fight smacked more of getting even for the 2009 pull outs

I think it's more a case of lack of trust than getting even, and I don't blame him. In 2009, Wlad wanted to fight in March but waited until June because Haye insisted on it. Then Haye pulled out at the last moment, citing an injury which you've implicitly stated was bogus, leaving Wlad to scrabble around for a credible opponent at two weeks notice. Furthermore, Haye had said he could deliver a football stadium in the UK as a venue, then backtracked with little notice, leaving K2 to pick up the pieces of that, too.

Then Haye pulled out of fighting Vitali in September the same year, after agreeing contract terms, and only one day before those contracts were due to be signed - either because he thought he could make more money in the long run by fighting Valuev first, or because he decided he wanted to be able to call himself a World Champion without having to take any major risks (depending on your point of view).

Whether you think his reason for pulling out of the Vitali fight was justifiable or not, the timing of his pull-out was not justifiable. It meant the K bros would never again trust Haye's word. And in the light of that lack of trust, I don't blame Wlad for wanting a stay busy fight in April before fighting Haye in July - he simply thinks there's a chance Haye would pull out again. And as you stated in your post, there's no reason whatsoever why Wlad couldn't have met that commitment to fight in April and July, and no reason why Haye couldn't have met the July date either (as he wouldn't have been forced to fight Chagaev first as he claims he would).

Wlad is playing the I'm the real champ card; Haye is playing the "the revenue I'm brining is more' card. I think they'll work it out at some point.

I wish I could agree but I would bet all I own that Haye means what he says for once, and that he'll retire without fighting a Klitschko.

As to Vitali, nothing is happening there until the signed Solis fight is out of the way.

Haye was offered the opportunity to sign now to fight Vitali in July but turned it down. It's far from unprecedented to sign to fight someone who is fighting someone else first.

[crold1]

I know, you were one of the very few journalists who were, and I appreciated it. But I can't go along with you on this one.



I think it's more a case of lack of trust than getting even, and I don't blame him. In 2009, Wlad wanted to fight in March but waited until June because Haye insisted on it. Then Haye pulled out at the last moment, citing an injury which you've implicitly stated was bogus, leaving Wlad to scrabble around for a credible opponent at two weeks notice. Furthermore, Haye had said he could deliver a football stadium in the UK as a venue, then backtracked with little notice, leaving K2 to pick up the pieces of that too.

Then Haye pulled out of fighting Vitali in September the same year, after agreeing contract terms, and only one day before those contracts were due to be signed, either because he thought he could make more money in the long run by fighting Valuev first, or because he decided he wanted to be able to call himself a World Champion without having to take any major risks.

Whether you think his reason for pulling out of the Vitali fight was justifiable or not, the timing of his pull-out was not justifiable. It meant the K bros would never again trust Haye's word. And in the light of that lack of trust, I don't blame Wlad for wanting a stay busy fight in April before fighting Haye in July - he simply thinks there's a chance Haye would pull out again. And as you stated in your post, there's no reason whatsoever why Wlad couldn't have met that commitment to fight in April and July, and no reason why Haye couldn't have met the July date either (as he wouldn't have been forced to fight Chagaev first as he claims he would).



I wish I could agree but I would bet all I own that Haye means what he says for once, and that he'll retire without fighting a Klitschko.



Haye was offered the opportunity to sign now to fight Vitali in July but turned it down. It's far from unprecedented to sign to fight someone who is fighting someone else first.

He MIGHT retire without fighting a K bro, but I'll be floored if he retires and stays that way after this October.

[kingfaze19]

Haye dont wanna get whooped , simple as that ...dream on that fight aint happening