***wladimir klitschko's long, hard, stiff, accurate, penetrating jab***

[Russian Crushin]

How do you know? He's never fought anyone worth a damn. I'm not saying its guaranteed, but as long as Wlad fights, he's there to get hit. Watch him good, his size makes him slow and awkward "COMPARED" to a fighter like Ali who is very fast on his feet and with his fists. For Ali, it would be like fighting someone who was stuck in slow motion.


Lets leave Lewis out of this because that will just throw this thread into a different direction. The klitschko's have never fought anyone that seemed capable of beating them on points, and that's the bottom line. They are very beatable over a 12 round fight against a good fighter. They're good, but are way overrated by fans who know little about boxing history.

Im pretty sure you have never seen the Klitschkos fight

My favorite part in your little essay is that you want to leave out lewis because it will "just throw this thread into a different direction"

You know what that new direction is? A complete contradiction to what you say

[Russian Crushin]

I'm saying that because the big guys can't work at a high rate like the smaller heavyweights and would be out worked every time. They can be successful against bums, but not against ATG's. Learn boxing, my friend.

We have a strength and conditioning expert here trying to say big men cannot beat little men and telling us that we dont know boxing

[cupocity303]

I'm saying that because the big guys can't work at a high rate like the smaller heavyweights and would be out worked every time. They can be successful against bums, but not against ATG's. Learn boxing, my friend.

That may be true if I agreed with your premise that all they ever fought were bums. That of course is not true, just opinion from overly sensitive, emotional fans who have this idea of what a boxer should be.

This is like Roy Jones's quote, they say I'm fighting nobodies, I just make them look like nobodies. That's what happens when you stand out that much from your competition and don't allow anybody to be great.

Somewhere in this era of heavyweights was a version of a Joe Frazier, it's just unlike Ali who ended up losing to Frazier and thus making him great, The Klitschko's never allowed that to happen.

Frazier is only great because he defeated Ali, what if Ali simply dominated Frazier, would he still be great? No.

I'm not saying Frazier is a bum, I'm saying the premise that someone like Frazier or Ali have had competition that much greater to the bums of today, is hyperbole nonsense.

The Klitschko's aren't this dominant because everybody they fought were pure bums, they're dominating because they have weapons and size that stands out from the rest of the division. It's one thing to fight bums as a rookie, building your record, which everybody does, it's another to dominate world rated fighters. CALLING THEM BUMS IS HYPERBOLE.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Im pretty sure you have never seen the Klitschkos fight

I've seen them all.

My favorite part in your little essay is that you want to leave out lewis because it will "just throw this thread into a different direction"

You know what that new direction is? A complete contradiction to what you say

No, not at all. If you demand it I'll tell you. Its because the only guys that could have beaten Lewis over 12 rounds were too old by the time they faced him. Tyson and Holyfield, although I give Holyfield a much smaller chance.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

We have a strength and conditioning expert here trying to say big men cannot beat little men and telling us that we dont know boxing

Wow, goes to show how much you know.

[Russian Crushin]

Wow, goes to show how much you know.

Ok by your logic, Haye should beat Vlad everytime because vlad cannot keep up with his work rate

I'm saying that because the big guys can't work at a high rate like the smaller heavyweights and would be out worked every time

[cupocity303]

Lets rephrase this. The logic here amongst some iSflawed.

So, because Wlad Klitscho dominates his opposition, that automatically means that they were just bums.


But because Ali and Frazier are having life and death battles against each other, lets award both by calling them great and therefore superior to either Klitschko.

I'm not denying their greatness, but their ability as fighters seems to be overrated by the simple fact that they gave each other fits. And if you disagree with that and point to me to a prime Cassius Clay, well who has he fought in his prime? Didn't he get decked just before facing Sonny Liston? In his prime, he still was touchable. Now some logically flawed tard may try to explain that knockdown by saying just how great that opponent was.

Ali's bum opponent >>> Wlad's bum opponents. Yeah nice try, except there is no way to know that. Just mere speculation.

Ali is the greater fighter by resume, just don't mix that up with ABILITY and Physical gifts. Todays' Athlete >>> Yesterday's Athlete. The guys in Michael JOrdan's Era of basketball can't compare to todays' basketball players. They are a influence to todays' game but that's it, EVOLUTION continues.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

That may be true if I agreed with your premise that all they ever fought were bums. That of course is not true, just opinion from overly sensitive, emotional fans who have this idea of what a boxer should be.

This is like Roy Jones's quote, they say I'm fighting nobodies, I just make them look like nobodies. That's what happens when you stand out that much from your competition and don't allow anybody to be great.

But they are not looking great against these bums. Most of the time it takes them 10 rounds or so to wear these bums out and get them out of there. That's not impressive.

Somewhere in this era of heavyweights was a version of a Joe Frazier, it's just unlike Ali who ended up losing to Frazier and thus making him great, The Klitschko's never allowed that to happen.

Frazier is only great because he defeated Ali, what if Ali simply dominated Frazier, would he still be great? No.

You could take that one fight away when Frazier beat Ali, and he would still be considered a great fighter, just not as great. And still much more proven that the Klitschko's.

I'm not saying Frazier is a bum, I'm saying the premise that someone like Frazier or Ali have had competition that much greater to the bums of today, is hyperbole nonsense.

The Klitschko's aren't this dominant because everybody they fought were pure bums, they're dominating because they have weapons and size that stands out from the rest of the division. It's one thing to fight bums as a rookie, building your record, which everybody does, it's another to dominate world rated fighters. CALLING THEM BUMS IS HYPERBOLE.

Like I explained earlier, they should be looking a lot better against these bums. The fact that they have hight and reach advantage over everyone of these bums, makes their victories look even less impressive. Forgive the whole bum thing, but I use it loosely and use it for a lot of guys in every era, not just this one.

[ROSS CALIFORNIA]

Ok by your logic, Haye should beat Vlad everytime because vlad cannot keep up with his work rate

No, I said against ATG'd, but just certain ones. Haye is not an ATG. I don't even think Marciano could have beat the Klitschko's. I'm not calling them total bums, I'm saying they are way overrated if you think they beat Ali.

[cupocity303]

Like I explained earlier, they should be looking a lot better against these bums. The fact that they have hight and reach advantage over everyone of these bums, makes their victories look even less impressive. Forgive the whole bum thing, but I use it loosely and use it for a lot of guys in every era, not just this one.

Ali/Clay in his prime was carrying "Bums" (your words) for 15 rounds, jabbing away and dancing. Are you telling me he should've destroyed them in much better fashion. Perhaps even took care of them Iron Mike Style?

No, because you accept the fact that was Ali's style of fighting. I can remember watching countless of Ali fights from the 60's on Espn Classic, boring to death yet I don't blame him. On the same note, it's Wlad's style of fighting.

He didn't perfect his style when he was younger and thus gassed out and got TKO'd, he is a late bloomer. He now has perfected his style and is not wasting energy dancing around or throwing more punches than needed. No body punches necessary, those are for smaller fighters. He has big arms, big reach guys don't fight on the inside, they keep their smaller opponents at bay and control them from the outside, if they're GREAT BIG FIGHTERS, WHICH THE KLITSCHKO'S ARE.