if you were khan, ortiz, lamont, or maidana's trainer...

[Pullcounter]

if you were khan, ortiz, lamont, or maidana's trainer, how would you improve their game

khan: definitely a couple things for roach to help khan with.

• khan needs to fight a more disciplined fight because of the danger he's always in because of his weak chin. yeah, it's better than it was at 135 lbs, but it ain't granite either.
• khan's defense still isn't that polished. if you watch some of the training videos, I think it was smitty's, roach specificallly tells khan to look out for the overhand right and how to defend against. lo and behold, khan gets nailed with an overhand right that sends him to ***** city.
• khan has a lot of wasted movement, that's why he gassed in the middle rounds. he is moving around way too much. khan needs to learn more at pac's feet. pac lets his opponent come forward, pac unloads 3-6 punch combos, then turns his opponent.
• khan needs to learn how to fight on the inside. khan only has a really good outside game, but without an inside game, his style is incomplete. he won't be able to hold against everybody cause cortez isn't going to be reffing all his fights.
• more body punching. he ****ed maidana up bad with those bodyshots. he needs to commit to more bodypunching to slow down relentless bastards like maidana

ortiz: he's still young and even tho he's a quitter, he's still got mad potential. you're never going to be able to train him to have heart, but atleast you can mitigate the instances where he might have to dig deep.

• he needs to stop telegraphing his offense. he bounces on his feet most of the time, but when he is getting ready to attack, he plants or sets his feet. IMHO, that's how lamont timed him and was able to duck/block most of ortiz's punches.
• angles! ortiz is southpaw, but it seems like he doesn't know how to use those southpaw angles. there's nothing subtle about his offense. he moves around, stops, then comes forward straight at you. way too predictable.
• better punch selection. thinking back on it, I think was just throwing jabs and crosses. didn't see many uppercuts, which would've helped him alot cause lamont was ducking alot.
• don't be so eager to clinch. towards the end of the fight, it was getting unbearable to watch cause they were clinching so much, i thought i was watching andre ward or bhop.
• ortiz needs to learn to set up his offense. jab your way in. don't just throw when you see an opening. set traps.
• don't backpedal so much. especially against guys that aren't a threat to KO you. if you are backpedaling, set traps for them to walk into.

lamont: very talented guy, but he's lacking the intangibles that would make him a great fighter. there's really not much to say. lamont can box, but he just doesn't have anything that will take him over the hump, like explosive power, superhuman speed, incredible durabilty, etc... honestly I think lamont may have reached his potential.

• stop stalking. peterson fights like he has power, coming forward. he can't punch like ortiz. he doesn't have 1 punch KO power.
• fight tall. he's got a good height advantage, he should fight taller.
• jab like your name is wlad. some rounds, don't even use any other punches. just jab the ***** outta the other guy.
• counterpunching. I think peterson would be a lot better if he were to let the other guy run into his punches.
• spacing and distance. try and keep the fight at range so you can use your height and reach.

maidana: he is raw as ****. with some refinement, he could be even more dangerous and deadly.

• work on the footwork. maidana is a plodder. he's never gonna be ali, but his feet need to catch up with his hands.
• bodypunching. maidana focuses way too much on hitting the head. if he can work on the body, he can make his opponents who run slow down.
• counterpunching - maidana is either all offense or all defense. he needs a smoother transition from one to the other. if he punched with khan, instead of backpedaling he might've ****ed khan up despite khan's handspeed. it's not like he wasn't getting hit anyways.
• defense - more head movement and don't be so squared up.
• stamina - maidana got worked over because he gassed in the middle rounds. he caught his second wind, but it's a problem. if he can go all out for 12 rounds, damn, he'd be a monster.
• patience and discipline. maidana wasted a lot of unnecessary punches that had no chance of landing.
• fight smarter. he gotta have a plan B if plan A isn't working.

[Traveler1]

if you were khan, ortiz, lamont, or maidana's trainer, how would you improve their game

khan: definitely a couple things for roach to help khan with.

• khan needs to fight a more disciplined fight because of the danger he's always in because of his weak chin. yeah, it's better than it was at 135 lbs, but it ain't granite either.
• khan's defense still isn't that polished. if you watch some of the training videos, I think it was smitty's, roach specificallly tells khan to look out for the overhand right and how to defend against. lo and behold, khan gets nailed with an overhand right that sends him to ***** city.
• khan has a lot of wasted movement, that's why he gassed in the middle rounds. he is moving around way too much. khan needs to learn more at pac's feet. pac lets his opponent come forward, pac unloads 3-6 punch combos, then turns his opponent.
• khan needs to learn how to fight on the inside. khan only has a really good outside game, but without an inside game, his style is incomplete. he won't be able to hold against everybody cause cortez isn't going to be reffing all his fights.
• more body punching. he ****ed maidana up bad with those bodyshots. he needs to commit to more bodypunching to slow down relentless bastards like maidana

ortiz: he's still young and even tho he's a quitter, he's still got mad potential. you're never going to be able to train him to have heart, but atleast you can mitigate the instances where he might have to dig deep.

• he needs to stop telegraphing his offense. he bounces on his feet most of the time, but when he is getting ready to attack, he plants or sets his feet. IMHO, that's how lamont timed him and was able to duck/block most of ortiz's punches.
• angles! ortiz is southpaw, but it seems like he doesn't know how to use those southpaw angles. there's nothing subtle about his offense. he moves around, stops, then comes forward straight at you. way too predictable.
• better punch selection. thinking back on it, I think was just throwing jabs and crosses. didn't see many uppercuts, which would've helped him alot cause lamont was ducking alot.
• don't be so eager to clinch. towards the end of the fight, it was getting unbearable to watch cause they were clinching so much, i thought i was watching andre ward or bhop.
• ortiz needs to learn to set up his offense. jab your way in. don't just throw when you see an opening. set traps.
• don't backpedal so much. especially against guys that aren't a threat to KO you. if you are backpedaling, set traps for them to walk into.

lamont: very talented guy, but he's lacking the intangibles that would make him a great fighter. there's really not much to say. lamont can box, but he just doesn't have anything that will take him over the hump, like explosive power, superhuman speed, incredible durabilty, etc... honestly I think lamont may have reached his potential.

• stop stalking. peterson fights like he has power, coming forward. he can't punch like ortiz. he doesn't have 1 punch KO power.
• fight tall. he's got a good height advantage, he should fight taller.
• jab like your name is wlad. some rounds, don't even use any other punches. just jab the ***** outta the other guy.
• counterpunching. I think peterson would be a lot better if he were to let the other guy run into his punches.
• spacing and distance. try and keep the fight at range so you can use your height and reach.

maidana: he is raw as ****. with some refinement, he could be even more dangerous and deadly.

• work on the footwork. maidana is a plodder. he's never gonna be ali, but his feet need to catch up with his hands.
• bodypunching. maidana focuses way too much on hitting the head. if he can work on the body, he can make his opponents who run slow down.
• counterpunching - maidana is either all offense or all defense. he needs a smoother transition from one to the other. if he punched with khan, instead of backpedaling he might've ****ed khan up despite khan's handspeed. it's not like he wasn't getting hit anyways.
• defense - more head movement and don't be so squared up.
• stamina - maidana got worked over because he gassed in the middle rounds. he caught his second wind, but it's a problem. if he can go all out for 12 rounds, damn, he'd be a monster.
• patience and discipline. maidana wasted a lot of unnecessary punches that had no chance of landing.
• fight smarter. he gotta have a plan B if plan A isn't working.

Excellent post! You made some really good points about these fighters.

You're right on the mark about Lamont IMO. I don't see anything particularly special about him that makes him stand out. I guess this is as good as it gets for him.

Ortiz I really like. Even after he quit in the Maidana fight I still thought he could come back career-wise. He's got awesome potential, but there seems to be something wrong with him mentally. He seems to have lost his edge or something after that loss. I was surprised at how he reacted after drawing with Lamont. Not what I would expect from any fighter.

Khan is a young guy with great potential and, after this past fight, has also shown that he has a lot of heart to go with that talent. But he still has a lot of work to do. He has to work on his D and infighting skills. He was taking way to many uppercuts during Saturday's fight.

Maidana I would like to see switch to a new trainer who can actually teach him how to box and not brawl with his opponent the entire fight. He maybe to old to change his brawling style completely, but maybe some changes here and there like improving his D and footwork and learning to pace himself would help him tremendously in future fights.

[Double A 215]

if you were khan, ortiz, lamont, or maidana's trainer, how would you improve their game

khan: definitely a couple things for roach to help khan with.

• khan needs to fight a more disciplined fight because of the danger he's always in because of his weak chin. yeah, it's better than it was at 135 lbs, but it ain't granite either.
• khan's defense still isn't that polished. if you watch some of the training videos, I think it was smitty's, roach specificallly tells khan to look out for the overhand right and how to defend against. lo and behold, khan gets nailed with an overhand right that sends him to ***** city.
• khan has a lot of wasted movement, that's why he gassed in the middle rounds. he is moving around way too much. khan needs to learn more at pac's feet. pac lets his opponent come forward, pac unloads 3-6 punch combos, then turns his opponent.
• khan needs to learn how to fight on the inside. khan only has a really good outside game, but without an inside game, his style is incomplete. he won't be able to hold against everybody cause cortez isn't going to be reffing all his fights.
• more body punching. he ****ed maidana up bad with those bodyshots. he needs to commit to more bodypunching to slow down relentless bastards like maidana

ortiz: he's still young and even tho he's a quitter, he's still got mad potential. you're never going to be able to train him to have heart, but atleast you can mitigate the instances where he might have to dig deep.

• he needs to stop telegraphing his offense. he bounces on his feet most of the time, but when he is getting ready to attack, he plants or sets his feet. IMHO, that's how lamont timed him and was able to duck/block most of ortiz's punches.
• angles! ortiz is southpaw, but it seems like he doesn't know how to use those southpaw angles. there's nothing subtle about his offense. he moves around, stops, then comes forward straight at you. way too predictable.
• better punch selection. thinking back on it, I think was just throwing jabs and crosses. didn't see many uppercuts, which would've helped him alot cause lamont was ducking alot.
• don't be so eager to clinch. towards the end of the fight, it was getting unbearable to watch cause they were clinching so much, i thought i was watching andre ward or bhop.
• ortiz needs to learn to set up his offense. jab your way in. don't just throw when you see an opening. set traps.
• don't backpedal so much. especially against guys that aren't a threat to KO you. if you are backpedaling, set traps for them to walk into.

lamont: very talented guy, but he's lacking the intangibles that would make him a great fighter. there's really not much to say. lamont can box, but he just doesn't have anything that will take him over the hump, like explosive power, superhuman speed, incredible durabilty, etc... honestly I think lamont may have reached his potential.

• stop stalking. peterson fights like he has power, coming forward. he can't punch like ortiz. he doesn't have 1 punch KO power.
• fight tall. he's got a good height advantage, he should fight taller.
• jab like your name is wlad. some rounds, don't even use any other punches. just jab the ***** outta the other guy.
• counterpunching. I think peterson would be a lot better if he were to let the other guy run into his punches.
• spacing and distance. try and keep the fight at range so you can use your height and reach.

maidana: he is raw as ****. with some refinement, he could be even more dangerous and deadly.

• work on the footwork. maidana is a plodder. he's never gonna be ali, but his feet need to catch up with his hands.
• bodypunching. maidana focuses way too much on hitting the head. if he can work on the body, he can make his opponents who run slow down.
• counterpunching - maidana is either all offense or all defense. he needs a smoother transition from one to the other. if he punched with khan, instead of backpedaling he might've ****ed khan up despite khan's handspeed. it's not like he wasn't getting hit anyways.
• defense - more head movement and don't be so squared up.
• stamina - maidana got worked over because he gassed in the middle rounds. he caught his second wind, but it's a problem. if he can go all out for 12 rounds, damn, he'd be a monster.
• patience and discipline. maidana wasted a lot of unnecessary punches that had no chance of landing.
• fight smarter. he gotta have a plan B if plan A isn't working.

Good stuff, however I just think that Peterson and Maidana both to a large extent are who/what they are and there isn't much wrong with that as they'll beat 90% of the other fighters being just that... A guy like Petrson will be a tough out for the next 5+ years and may even hold a belt or two during that time...

Ortiz has much room for improvement, it'll just be at 147 IMO...

Khan has star quality and great marketability with his personality and exciting style... Plus he's always one punch away from being on his arse and fight fans always take to guys like that...

[Pullcounter]

lols i guess people like my troll threads better.

[Kimo]

Hell no! This is a good topic, screw a popularity contest, if this was about PED's it woulda been 10 pages already.


Someone needs to figure out what the **** is up with Ortiz. Somehow he doesn't seem to take things seriously. He needs to fight Maidana again. Time to wake the hell up and realize his potential.

[Traveler1]

Hell no! This is a good topic, screw a popularity contest, if this was about PED's it woulda been 10 pages already.


Someone needs to figure out what the **** is up with Ortiz. Somehow he doesn't seem to take things seriously. He needs to fight Maidana again. Time to wake the hell up and realize his potential.

Maidana is a true soul assasin. He must have killed whatever fighting spirit Ortiz had before that fight. The guy hasn't been the same since. I hope I'm wrong 'cause I genuinely like the guy and would like to see him succeed. He's got great potential. Good power in both hands, decent speed etc. But that loss really ****ed his head up bad.

[sultanisking]

agreed,

Khan gassed himself out, and was willing to take 100 uppercuts rather than an over the top right, needs to improve his footwork, lunges to far forward and the last flurry, he ended up too close to maidana and had to put him away to create distance, his footwork needs some sorting

Ortiz, is too precautionary, look at khan and ortiz, khan had a more ruthless loss, but he hasn't changed his style much, starting with a **** and taking a few too many risks, but ortiz is just not willing to take big risks to kill off a fight, khan tried to kill the fight with maidna but the bell rang

[Kimo]

agreed,

Khan gassed himself out, and was willing to take 100 uppercuts rather than an over the top right, needs to improve his footwork, lunges to far forward and the last flurry, he ended up too close to maidana and had to put him away to create distance, his footwork needs some sorting

Ortiz, is too precautionary, look at khan and ortiz, khan had a more ruthless loss, but he hasn't changed his style much, starting with a **** and taking a few too many risks, but ortiz is just not willing to take big risks to kill off a fight, khan tried to kill the fight with maidna but the bell rang

So basically he became a little 'gun shy' as Merchant put it so correctly? Crazy though, if you knock a guy down 3 times doesn't your killer instinct come out?

[Pullcounter]

So basically he became a little 'gun shy' as Merchant put it so correctly? Crazy though, if you knock a guy down 3 times doesn't your killer instinct come out?

ortiz's confidence is shook.

[Phenom]

Khan is trying to be more offensive fighter he was throwing some beautiful combinations that did ZERO damage his work rate went up in the Maidna fight and he was tired in late rounds. thats not his style



Ortiz is not really into boxing its almost a hobby for him at this point what he needs is a good corner right now he doesn't seem to adjust that well mid-rounds


Lamont is never going to be an elite at 140 he will however be a tough fight for anyone.