Comments Thread For: Tales From The Vault: Pernell Whitaker-Diosbelys Hurtado

[JakeNDaBox]

I remember being stuck at work on a Friday night - I worked 3rd shift back then, and also at a time when HBO wasn't scared to air boxing on an occasional Friday. There was a snowstorm in town - par for the course in NY, but major by standards elsewhere - and my plan was to get in early and leave early since it was too soon in the year to burn a vacation day.

Didn't quite work out - all I did was get in early and was stuck there for the night. I got plenty of OT out of the deal, but missed the fight. I had to rely on my brother-in-law for updates. His description was terrible, didn't come close to matching what I saw for myself the next day.

Had I known Lee back then, I never would've needed to watch the replay. This tale would've been suffice. The attention to detail is amazing, as always. Excellent work, Lee. Nice to see your name back on the site.

[JakeNDaBox]

Excellent article. Those who were watching boxing religiously at the time, what was it like seeing Whitaker getting totally schooled by such an amateurish style?

I imagine it was a bit like Pascal-Dawson, except multiplied by... a lot.

The thing about it was... the greater red flag was the realization that Whitaker was that far along into his career, where many figured his following fight w/ Oscar would be a mere formality.

Instead, the DLH fight turned out to be his last hurrah, where he probably deserved no worse than a draw.

But yeah against Hurtado, not sure what was as stunning at the time - that he was that far behind against an 8-rd novice, or that he actually pulled out a KO to win the fight. That's the one thing I remember. My B/I/L calling me nonchalantly, "Yeah, Whitaker came back and knocked him out" as if it was Trinidad one-punch KO'ing some cat or something.

That part amazed me more than anything else. That he was losing, like I said was a sign that he was on the downside of his career. The funny thing was, Hurtado became considerably overrated after that - between that fight (at welterweight, out of his comfort zone) and his two KD's against Tszyu, came the knee-jerk suggestion that he was high among the best 140 lb fighters in the world.

[Walt Liquor]

The thing about it was... the greater red flag was the realization that Whitaker was that far along into his career, where many figured his following fight w/ Oscar would be a mere formality.

Instead, the DLH fight turned out to be his last hurrah, where he probably deserved no worse than a draw.

But yeah against Hurtado, not sure what was as stunning at the time - that he was that far behind against an 8-rd novice, or that he actually pulled out a KO to win the fight. That's the one thing I remember. My B/I/L calling me nonchalantly, "Yeah, Whitaker came back and knocked him out" as if it was Trinidad one-punch KO'ing some cat or something.

That part amazed me more than anything else. That he was losing, like I said was a sign that he was on the downside of his career. The funny thing was, Hurtado became considerably overrated after that - between that fight (at welterweight, out of his comfort zone) and his two KD's against Tszyu, came the knee-jerk suggestion that he was high among the best 140 lb fighters in the world.

well, to be fair he knocked out a bunch of people in a row after that fight and he ran into a buzzsaw in tszyu who had just basically retired ruelas
also, winning that many rounds against pea should give him some major props, should it not?

even at pea's age

[sweetpea87]

I'm going to have to get this book.

[Fox McCloud]

This fight is on my parent's DVR (where I'm supposed to be writing a billion page paper for grad school), so I googled this fight and reread this article. It is an absolute gem for those who haven't read it. It is quite long, but it is far and away worth it.

That said, this fight really is so similar to Pascal-Dawson. The guy who has masterfully been the slicker and mover his entire career, rarely losing a round, finds someone who shows up with the stronger will to be the one on the retreat (it's shocking that fights where one fighter who fights in a defense first style gets beat to the punch by someone who employs more movement than punching in their game plan somehow almost always turn out to be entertaining) and forces the favorite to come forward, which is out of their comfort zone.

I think Genaro Hernandez's words before his fight with Floyd Mayweather Jr. would be well remembered (which Hernandez did not follow through with by the way)... "I'm going to make him come to me. I don't care how ****** it looks." The trick to beating these guys like Hurtado or Pascal is to take them out of their comfort zone, because a guy who can run around and jump in awkwardly without getting caught with counters on the way in due to their massive amounts of experience doing so is almost unbeatable if you fall into the trap of following them around.

Had I known Lee back then, I never would've needed to watch the replay. This tale would've been suffice. The attention to detail is amazing, as always. Excellent work, Lee. Nice to see your name back on the site.

It's true that I think the vivid way he describes the fight has the rhetorical power to suck the reader in to the point that they get lost in it while reading it.

The same way the most people say that a book is better than a movie because you can imagine what is happening, and your imagination does a better job capturing it than a movie does, I think most boxing fans who hadn't seen this would be let down if they saw it for the first time after reading this article. It really is that well done.

The thing about it was... the greater red flag was the realization that Whitaker was that far along into his career, where many figured his following fight w/ Oscar would be a mere formality.

Instead, the DLH fight turned out to be his last hurrah, where he probably deserved no worse than a draw.

It's amazing what being motivated, respecting your opponent and taking a break from ******* during training camp will do for your performance in the ring...

But yeah against Hurtado, not sure what was as stunning at the time - that he was that far behind against an 8-rd novice, or that he actually pulled out a KO to win the fight. That's the one thing I remember. My B/I/L calling me nonchalantly, "Yeah, Whitaker came back and knocked him out" as if it was Trinidad one-punch KO'ing some cat or something.

That part amazed me more than anything else. That he was losing, like I said was a sign that he was on the downside of his career. The funny thing was, Hurtado became considerably overrated after that - between that fight (at welterweight, out of his comfort zone) and his two KD's against Tszyu, came the knee-jerk suggestion that he was high among the best 140 lb fighters in the world.

Just curious, what is a B/I/L?

The bold made me laugh a lot.

I will say that Whitaker was a better fighter at that point than he showed against Hurtado, bad performances against Rivera and Hurtado, as well as being unmotivated or not. I think Hurtado's hit and (literally) run style would have always gotten Pea way out of his comfort zone and would have always resulted in a less than stellar Whitaker performance.

I'll also say that putting Tszyu down twice is impressive, even if he lost the fight a few rounds later. Tszyu had a style that was supposed to keep the big punch from being put on him with his technical skill. I briefly went through his fights, and saw he was knocked down a few times over the span of a few fights. Off topic, was it his chin that caused these knockdowns (another way of asking if he was hurt) or was he off balance a lot of the time? Back to topic, Tszyu's only loss was to Vince Phillips (which I have no idea how that result was possible, no matter how focused Phillips was... I still don't think his prime/prepared self should be beating Tszyu), so getting him in trouble is obviously not an easy feat.

Finally, I'll say that Hurtado's career likely would have received a boost had the Mayorga fight not gotten stopped early due to an accidental headbutt, as I think Hurtado has the perfect style to beat Mayorga. He had some power to back Mayorga off (unlike Cory Spinks) and Hurtado jumping in with flurries doesn't seem like a problem to me, seeing as how Mayorga's counterpunching skills were less than legendary. In addition. beating Randall Bailey to win a legitimate title is a pretty good win to hang your hat on if you are trying to be a B level titlist in history. How he was down in that fight at the time of the knockout is also a mystery to me. It seems like Bailey's style wouldn't do a lot to stop the Hurtado offense from getting off.

Wow... the doctor isn't kidding. Adderall really does focus you like nothing else can. I think this is my longest post ever by two or threefold.

[bojangles1987]

This is definitely a fight you would show someone who says ****** things about Whitaker not having punching power or being a runner. He pressured and worked the body and got the knockout. The way he just kept landing that left on Hurtado as he was laying on the ropes was brutal.

[Fox McCloud]

This is definitely a fight you would show someone who says ****** things about Whitaker not having punching power or being a runner. He pressured and worked the body and got the knockout. The way he just kept landing that left on Hurtado as he was laying on the ropes was brutal.

Just to play devil's advocate, had he not had Hurtado in front of him, who was hellbent on being the mover and had the type of game plan to catch unprepared Whitaker napping, putting Sweat Pea into a large hole on the scorecards, we likely wouldn't have seen Pernell pressuring and showing that punching power.

He was more content to be the boxer, and not have to commit to punches so he wouldn't be in position for the counterpunch, or at least a position that couldn't get himself out of trouble from. Take the boxer's biggest weapons away that he relies on to win fights in his comfort zone and you get that test that almost every boxer has to go through at some point... will you make the adjustments to try to win the fight, even if it means putting yourself at risk to absorb more punches? Those adjustments usually lean more towards reckless than the way the boxer fights normally.

For instance, it was impressive to me (even though it didn't work) to see Cristian Mijares moving forward and trying to take the fight to Vic Darchinyan, and boxing and jabbing was not getting it done that night, so he employed plan B, and even though it ended up with him on his back looking up at the lights, I still respect him more for doing that, rather than just surviving to the final bell.