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I categorize my ATG heavyweights in two Tiers...
Tier 1 is the best of the best, you cannot pick with one beats the other, but typically anyone outside of Tier 1 does not outdo them. Tier 2 is made up of fighters that were just under the Tier 1 and it is huge, usually the nemesis'/acid tests for the Tier 1 greats, their are alot of other factors, but that is a generalization. Maybe they weren't as complete as the Tier 1 or maybe their career fell appart early.
Tier 1, obviously, Joe Louis, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Rocky Marciano Etc...Not a very long list. Very exceptional fighters either mentally, physically, skillfully, or a combination of them all that could beat ANYONE including the other fighters in Tier 1. Fighters from the older ages get moved out of this one all the time by me, their are no Jack Dempseys or Jack Johnsons because they just would not measure up to THAT level(Now if they were born today, I do think that a great fighter back then would be JUST as great today, It is all hard hard work, determination, and tons of sacrafice that makes a great fighter of the tier 1 level, but that just isn't the way history turned out IMHO)
Tier 2 is guys like Sonny Liston, Mike Tyson, Jack Dempsey, Max Baer, Joe Frazier, Jack Johnson etc... All of these fighters accomplished amazing feats in boxing and had awesome awesome skill sets, but just lacked that Umph that the Tier 1's had. They are still ATGs in my book, but that difference has to be made and due respect must be had in boxing! People have litterally died in the ring for glory, not money, and to misplace a fighters glory is morally criminal imo(granted I know very little compared to the knowledge that is out their).
Tyson sacraficed(Along with all of the other listed fighters) the better part of a rough life for boxing, for entertainment. Just as a man he deserves his due respect in that area. Tyson was one of the best swarmers in history, period. He didn't have any one attribute that was the best, but the combination was awesome to say the least. Tyson's prime was short because of his handlers, the entire world around him just collapsed and attacked him, that must be realized, it wasn't his fault at all. He would put up a good showing against any fighter(Except Foreman) in history just with grit and that "Jungle intensity" as Duran would put it!
Tyson dominated a good division, it was good, I would give it a 6 out of 10 if todays is a 3 out of 10. The 70s being a 9 out of 10 in its hayday.
I should also say, that in the Tier 2, their is room for both Klitschkos. More so for Wlad. If I can see 15 more fights from them, just 15, and they continue to dominate the same way for those 15 fights, they will be shoeins to Tier 2. It is not their fault that they were born to fight today, and that must be recognised, as must their obvious skill...we know that Vitali has serious balls, showed that against Lewis when he was going to be KTFOed soon, Wlad probably has some brass balls on himself to...but I gotta see another 15 dominations. I mean they would be over fighters like Ron Lyle! Lyle I respect as a Legendary fighter, which is the category just under Tier 2 ATG :P Right along with Earnie Shavers, the Klits, Rid**** Bowe, Ken Norton, Etc... -
I disagree. Mike wasn't exposed by Douglas, and Mike had many impressive wins, not just Holmes and Spinks.Comment
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I would argue that he is though, and that alone is basis for a good ear. Their is a decent argument that he is. But I cannot accept that he ever could have been at the top level, or could ever beat anyone their under normal circumstances. Call it what you want, I call him a Tier 2 ATG, I say that he is around the caliber of Frazier, Baer, Liston, etc...Do I think he would beat Frazier? No but I bet it would be a barn burner of a fight, ending in a SD or a close UD for Frazier. Do I think he would beat Max Baer? I think he could KO a serious Baer in the mid-late rounds, but Baer can take him on one good shot. I Think he would put up a decent fight with Liston, better than he would do against Foreman's pressure.
I do not think that their is even a start of a argument for him being able to beat Ali, Foreman(Obviously), Louis, Lewis, or Marciano(The pressure and toughness discourages Mike) Or being as great as they were....Comment
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