Quantitative Analysis of P4P#1

[Who are you?]

The general opinion is that, the top-two fighters in the sport are undoubtedly Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather. There exists considerable disagreement, however, concerning the exact order of these two.

BoxRec.Com has Floyd Mayweather listed as #1 P4P,
RING Magazine has Manny Pacquiao listed as #1 P4P.

What I will attempt to do here is quantify the P4P #1 position, and show, beyond reasonable doubt, that Manny Pacquiao should be considered #1 P4P.

Let us remember that P4P is judged on
A) The level of opposition you have beat
and B) The manner in which you have beaten this opposition

(I'm hoping we can all agree on that, that P4P as a ranking is determined through who you have beaten (your results), and how you beat them (your subjective performance))

**Furthermore** there exists a time bias in that more recent fights should have more emphasis than older fights. That is, what Mayweather did in 2001 is not as important as what Mayweather did in 2009. Make sense?

Now, let's begin with Floyd Mayweather and look at his biggest 5 Wins as a Pro.

- W 12 Shane Mosley, 2010. Mayweather beats a 39 year old Mosley in dominant fashion. There was a time when Mosley was considered elite level, but at age 39, you'd figure Mosley's best years were a good 5 years behind him. Mosley of 2010 was a different fighter than Mosley of 2000.

This win is awarded an 8/10 for Quality of Opposition and a 8/10 For fashion of win. 16 Total Points.

- W 12 Oscar De La Hoya, 2007. Mayweather barely beats a 35 year old De La Hoya who had been in mixed fights with mixed results, and was semi-retired. Oscar was really slipping at this time in his career, and honestly, he was slipping even in the early 2000s. At the time, many people felt this fight was close, and that the fight should have been a draw or even a DLH win. This was by no means a dominant fight, and really it was very close.

This win is awarded an 8/10 for Quality of Opposition and 5/10 For Fashion of win. 13 Total Points.

- W 12 JM Marquez, 2009. Mayweather fights and defeats the always competent Marquez over 12 rounds, knocking him down in round 2. If there is one criticism in this fight, it would be Marquez's age, and the fact that he was a smaller man.

This win is awarded an 8/10 for Quality of Opposition and 8/10 For fashion of win. 16 Total Points.

- KO 10 Ricky Hatton, 2007. Mayweather knocks out undefeated (albeit somewhat overrated) Ricky Hatton in a high profile bout. At the time, Hatton was undefeated, but we always knew he was a tad overrated and not as good as the record suggested. Looking back, Hatton was way overrated coming into this fight.

This win is awarded a 7/10 for Quality of Opposition and an 8/10 For fashion of win. 15 Total Points.

- W 12 Zab Judah, 2006. Mayweather beats Judah, despite an early round scare in a somewhat lacklustre, boring fight. Judah was since KO'd by Cotto, and absolutely destroyed by Tszyu prior to this fight. Mayweather's result certainly does not stack up. Judah, for all his talent, never was an elite fighter.

This win is awarded a 7/10 for Quality of Opposition and a 6/10 for Fashion of win (especially compared to other Judah results). 13 Total Points.

Mayweather has 73 Total Points from these fights, his highest profile fights. Some people might say that the Corrales fight should be used, but keep in mind that fight happened ten years ago, several weightclasses below, and besides. DLH, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley were all bigger fights than Corrales. Judah maybe could be switched for Corrales, but keep in mind they are 6 years apart.

Mayweather = 73 Points

[S.G.]

This method is still entirely subjective, just broken down into smaller chunks.

[Who are you?]

Now lets consider Manny Pacquiao's biggest 5 Fights

- TKO 8 Oscar De La Hoya, 2008. Pacquiao stops former Mayweather victim and does it in unrelenting, dominant fashion, as opposed to Mayweather's close fight which was almost a draw. Much better result from Manny.

This win is awarded an 8/10 for Quality of Opposition and 9/10 For Fashion of win. 17 Total Points.

- KO 2 Ricky Hatton, 2009. Another Mayweather victim, who at round 6 was actually winning the fight VS Mayweather, is absolutely destroyed, outclassed, and humiliated by Pacquiao in one of the biggest beatdowns in contemporary boxing.

This win is awarded a 7/10 for Quality of Opposition and a 10/10 for Fashion of Win. 17 Total Points.

- W 12 JM Marquez, 2008. Keep in mind that this fight happened at a more natural weight for Marquez than did Mayweather fight. So that certainly made the fight more competitive. It was a closer result, but there was an age and weight factor involved.

This fight is awarded an 8.5/10 for Quality of Opposition (.5 added due to weight), and a 6/10 for Fashion. 14.5 Total Points.

- KO 3 Erik Morales, 2006. Mexican Ring Legend Erik Morales is destroyed by Manny Pacquiao in 2 fights, the first being a KO 10 result, then this, a KO3 result. Nobody had ever stopped Morales before and truly, Morales is a legend and at one time was unbeatable and top8 P4P. If there is a criticism of Morales, its that he was a bit behind his best days when he fought Pacquiao.

This fight is awarded a 8/10 for Quality of Opposition, 10/10 for Fashion of win. 18 Total Points.

- KO 12 Miguel Cotto, 2009. Tough Puerto Rican is stopped in dominant, humiliating fashion. This fight was not competitive, it was a horrorshow and Miguel never had a chance. Mercy stoppage.

This fight is awarded 8/10 for Quality of Opposition, and 8/10 for Fashion of Win. 16 Total Points.

Pacquiao has 82.5 Points judging these wins. Its also important to note that this left out several more fantastic Pacquiao wins which occurred at an earlier time (KO 11 Barrera, KO 10 Morales etc). Barrera at that time was a top4 P4P fighter who was dominated and destroyed by Pacman.
Pacquiao = 82.5 Points

[Who are you?]

Really, there is no rational explanation for having Mayweather ahead of Pacquiao.

Pacquiao has done better, against better levels of competition. ITS THAT SIMPLE.

Thats not to say that Pacquiao would win a fight VS Mayweather. Im not saying that.

What I am saying is

RESUME versus RESUME

Pacquiao by far has beaten better fighters and more importantly: He's beaten them in a better fashion

Pacquiao is a clear #1 P4P, and thus far, has a more accomplished resume than Floyd.

[winky's right]

my favorite part was when you granted a natural delahoya and a weak, dehydrated delahoya the same "quality" [8/10]. i also liked how zab judah is on par with that coke fiend hatton.

[cupocity303]

Love the spin job you did there. You put an entirely negative spin on Floyd's opposition putting the asterisk around it (I.E. Mosley is 39 years old, Delahoya was weak). Ignoring the fact that he was The Welterweight Champion, who knocked out Margarito


Yet not applying the same tactics to Pacquiao's opposition. Like the fact that Cotto was just coming off of 2 out of 3 tough fights, getting pounded by Margarito into submission, and getting cut up against Clottey, barely escaping with a W.

Even Delahoya, Vs Floyd he was weak....but you ignore the version vs Pacquiao, who was dehydrated, almost 2 years older from the time he fought Floyd at 154 - his more natural weight class.


Typical selective bias, at least try to apply the same standard across the board.

[cupocity303]

(I'm hoping we can all agree on that, that P4P as a ranking is determined through who you have beaten (your results), and how you beat them (your subjective performance))

**Furthermore** there exists a time bias in that more recent fights should have more emphasis than older fights. That is, what Mayweather did in 2001 is not as important as what Mayweather did in 2009. Make sense?

Ok then, lets focus on this statement above, since it appears to be the premise of your argument, before you started spinning.


Who has Floyd beaten in recent times - Ricky Hatton, Marquez, Mosley



And how has he beaten them (his subjective performance) -

He knocked out Ricky Hatton and took his 0, removing him from the top 10 P4P Rankings.

He dominated Marquez for the entire 12 rounds, who was the reigning Lightweight Champ and P4P # 2. Granted at a unnatural weight for JMM, but dominated him the way Pac never did nonetheless. This is important since you apparently tried to boost Pacquiao's accomplishments because he beat Delahoya (Dehydrated) and Hatton far better than Floyd did, ignoring all their faults.

And despite a shaky start, he showed heart and recovery abilities, dominating the Welterweight Champ Shane Mosley, who was also a Top 5 P4P fighter.

That's three P4P Top 10 guys in a row that Floyd beat.



Who has Pacquiao beaten in his last 3 - Hatton, Cotto, Clottey


And how has he beaten them (his subjective performance) -

Beat the reigning 140 champ in Ricky in the first round, we give him credit for that despite not being the first to beat him.

Beat a paper champ in Cotto who just came off a shaky performance vs Clottey. Dominant but was Cotto the Champ or P4P Top 10?

Beat Clottey in dominant fashion - But was Clottey a title holder, a P4P Top 10, anything? No, he just came off a loss.

So that's 1 legimate champ in ricky, and two non-P4P Guys.


I say Floyd has the far better case for # 1.

[Dave Rado]

Really, there is no rational explanation for having Mayweather ahead of Pacquiao.

You have no idea what the word "rational" means. Your posts are so ridiculously biased, they are nothing more than propaganda. There is nothing rational about propaganda.

[Dave Rado]

Dominant but was Cotto the Champ or P4P Top 10?

Cotto was ranked #7 in The Ring's P4P lists at the time. And he had easily the best Welterweight resume of any Welterweight at that time, unless you take into account Mosley's 2000-2002 run.

There was no lineal champion at that time, just four alphabet titlists, of whom he was one. It was a toss-up between him and Mosley as to who should be considered the #1 Welterweight, and Cotto had as much claim on the #1 spot as Mosley did, because of the fact that Cotto had beaten Mosley not long before.