Comments Thread For: Arthur Abraham: Klitschko Should Fight Haye, Povetkin

[Dave Rado]

damn guys you gotta keep this interview in perspective either it was done with AAs weak english or a translation of German. I think the "should" is being take too literally on this thread, for all we know he was saying thats the fight he want to see not that Klitchko is ducking anyone. Notice how there is no quote dissing K, just Sam peter for not showing up to fight and how he thinks those other guys would show up. Although I agree that mentioning Valuev in that list was def. a promotional company thing.

Best post in the thread. The interviewer who actually spoke to Abraham, Alexander Pavlov, is Russian. Presumably, the interview was conducted in German, which isn't either Pavlov's or Abraham's first language. Then the interview was translated into English for boxingscene by Ruslan Chikov, who is also Russian. So you're right, it's almost certainly a bad translation, and Abraham probably did not actually intend to criticise anyone but Peter, and probably did not intend to imply that he wasn't aware that both Haye and Povetkin have ducked Wlad this year.

So I take back what I said earlier about Abraham being imbecilic. The poster I was replying to was being imbecilic, but Abraham may well have simply been unintentionally misquoted due to bad translations.

[Dave Rado]

Abraham is a complete moron. I will no longer support him. I hope Froch beats the shit out of him.

Are you sure he hasn't been misquoted? See my previous post.

[Dave Rado]

if you want to hate, at least do it using facts

Byrd didn't destroy Vitali, Vitali QUIT

You forgot to mention that he quit due to a serious injury that he incurred in the second round, and yet despite that injury, Vitali was way ahead on the cards when he pulled out of the fight after nine rounds.

[Tiozzo]

You forgot to mention that he quit due to a serious injury that he incurred in the second round, and yet despite that injury, Vitali was way ahead on the cards when he pulled out of the fight after nine rounds.

I didn't forget nothing

he quit period

lots of great champions have fought hurt and injured, broken jaws, ***ed up shoulders, and they still carried on, sometimes won those fights

Pascal fought with a ****ed up shoulder whereas Vitali quit

Ali, Whitaker, AA, Ruddock, Malignaggi, they all fought with broken jaws

stop with the nuthugging please, Vitali shouldn't have quit in a fight that was in the bag, period

when you quit once, you're a quitter forever

and please, don't come back with lame excuses

[Dave Rado]

I didn't forget nothing

he quit period

lots of great champions have fought hurt and injured, broken jaws, ***ed up shoulders, and they still carried on, sometimes won those fights

Pascal fought with a ****ed up shoulder whereas Vitali quit

Ali, Whitaker, AA, Ruddock, Malignaggi, they all fought with broken jaws

stop with the nuthugging please, Vitali shouldn't have quit in a fight that was in the bag, period

when you quit once, you're a quitter forever

and please, don't come back with lame excuses

Maybe he shouldn't have, although you have no idea how much pain he was actually in, so your comparison with fighting with a broken jaw may or may not be valid. It's easy to be judgemental when it's not you in the ring. But whether or not he should have is irrelevant to the fact that he was way ahead on the cards at the time he pulled out, which makes Carlisle's claim that Byrd destroyed him truly ridiculous. And that was my main point, that you didn't mention that he was way ahead on the cards despite the fact that had been fighting for seven entire rounds with a serious injury.

And lots of great fighters have quit. Doesn't stop them being regarded as great fighters. Duran is generally regarded as top 10 P4P of all time, despite having quit with far less of an excuse than Vitali.

And I've had more red Ks from Klitschko fans than from everyone else put together, so your pretending that I'm a Klitschko nuthugger is ridiculous. I would have said the same thing regardless of who the boxer happened to be. I've said similar things about Ortiz and Campbell, and I'm not particularly a fan of either fighter.

And your "once a quitter always a quitter" cliché is inane. Duran showed tremendous heart in many subsequent fights, and Vitali showed tremendous heart against Lewis.

[Tiozzo]

Maybe he shouldn't have, although you have no idea how much pain he was actually in, so your comparison with fighting with a broken jaw may or may not be valid. It's easy to be judgemental when it's not you in the ring. But whether or not he should have is irrelevant to the fact that he was way ahead on the cards at the time he pulled out, which makes Carlisle's claim that Byrd destroyed him truly ridiculous. And that was my main point, that you didn't mention that he was way ahead on the cards despite the fact that had been fighting for seven entire rounds with a serious injury.
And lots of great fighters have quit. Doesn't stop them being regarded as great fighters. Duran is generally regarded as top 10 P4P of all time, despite having quit with far less of an excuse than Vitali.

And I've had more red Ks from Klitschko fans than from everyone else put together, so your pretending that I'm a Klitschko nuthugger is ridiculous. I would have said the same thing regardless of who the boxer happened to be. I've said similar things about Ortiz and Campbell, and I'm not particularly a fan of either fighter.

And your "once a quitter always a quitter" cliché is inane. Duran showed tremendous heart in many subsequent fights, and Vitali showed tremendous heart against Lewis.

how much pain he was in ? this is the hurt business, he would have won the fight without even throwing one punch in the last rounds, he didn't have to use the shoulder, just stand there, use his jab and his feet and cruise his way to an easy decision win

if he was able to fight for 7 rounds with the injury, why not last til the end ? Pascal had a very similar injury, he was in pain and he fought on

pain is also a relative thing, some people bear it better than others, that is a medical fact (Vitali told his corner ''it hurts too much'', then they stopped the fight)

I didn't mention the fact that he was ahead on the cards at the time he quit because everybody (should) know that, and because it was also irrelevant to my own point which was Byrd didn't destroy Vitali

obviously I meant that if you quit, it will follow you forever (on your record at the very least), it is a precedent, a stain, it questions your heart and your will, and whatever you do, it is there

I've been reading quite a lot of your comments recently, and you're protecting the Klits a whole lot these days, you even came close to flaming once or twice, which is uncharacteristic of you (that I know), that's why I thought you were maybe nuthugging them a bit now, if I'm wrong, good

a lot of historians and fans like to remind us that Duran quit, no matter how great he is and how much he has achieved before and after, the stain is there

[Mr. Philadel]

Anyone else get the sense that Abraham might also think his fight with Froch is still happening next weekend?

[Dave Rado]

how much pain he was in ? this is the hurt business, he would have won the fight without even throwing one punch in the last rounds, he didn't have to use the shoulder, just stand there, use his jab and his feet and cruise his way to an easy decision win

if he was able to fight for 7 rounds with the injury, why not last til the end ?

Obviously because it worsened a lot in the ninth round.

Pascal had a very similar injury, he was in pain and he fought on

Pascal had a dislocated shoulder, Vitali had a badly torn rotator cufff. They are completely different. Just because it was a shoulder injury doesn't make it similar. And you have no idea how much pain either fighter was in.

pain is also a relative thing, some people bear it better than others, that is a medical fact

Which means those who are medically more able to bear it require less courage in order do so than those who are medically less able to bear it require.

Vitali has no problem with bearing the pain of being hit by a punch, or by being badly cut, which is the sort of pain boxers normally have to contend with. But he had a problem with that particular injury, and no one but him has any idea how much pain he was in.

Plus Vitali was still fairly green, and has matured enormously since then; and people change as they mature.

I didn't mention the fact that he was ahead on the cards at the time he quit because everybody (should) know that,

The point is that Carlisle clearly doesn't, or if he does, is pretending that he doesn't.

and because it was also irrelevant to my own point which was Byrd didn't destroy Vitali

It's totally relevant, because if Carlisle had been telling the truth, Byrd would have been way ahead on the cards when Vitali quit, whereas he was way behind on the cards. Carlisle was implying that it was Byrd who made him quit, whereas Byrd had nothing to do with it, because Vitali was winning easily.

To give an analogy, when Liston quit against Ali, you could argue that Ali may have destroyed him psychologically, and that that's why Liston quit (especially as Liston didn't require an operation afterwards). But that clearly wasn't the case with the Vitali-Byrd fight. It was purely down to the injury and had nothing to do with Byrd.

obviously I meant that if you quit, it will follow you forever (on your record at the very least), it is a precedent, a stain, it questions your heart and your will, and whatever you do, it is there

Duran answered the questions about his heart in many subsequent fights. For instance he showed tremendous heart against Iran Barkley. And Vitali answered the questions about his in the Lewis fight.

I've been reading quite a lot of your comments recently, and you're protecting the Klits a whole lot these days

I don't ever "protect" anyone. I'll defend any fighter against irrational attacks, and I always have done. I still find Wlad boring (which is part of the reason I keep getting reds from his more extreme fans), but I can understand why he adopted a boring style, and I think he's been getting a lot less boring in recent fights. He has also improved significantly in the last couple of years, in terms of skills and ring intelligence, and has made considerable efforts in the past two years to fight the best possible opposition. And some of his recent opponents, while far from great, were good fighters, who would have been top 10 fighters in many other eras. E.g. I consider Chambers comparable skill-wise and speed-wise to both Byrd and Jimmy Young. As a result of all that, plus his sheer longevity and dominance as a title holder, he is now being considered to be getting fairly close to being at least a borderline ATG, not just by me, but by a lot of respected boxing experts, and that wasn't the case a couple of years ago, when I first started posting here.

And because of all of that, the attacks on the K bros and especially on Wlad are becoming increasingly irrational, and I am therefore more likely to write posts defending them than used to be the case.

Also, I generally defended Haye, or at least gave him the benefit of the doubt, until he blatantly ducked Wlad this year, whereas I now consider him to be a laughing stock, and that may affect the way other people think of my posts about the K brothers.

you even came close to flaming once or twice, which is uncharacteristic of you (that I know), that's why I thought you were maybe nuthugging them a bit now, if I'm wrong, good

I occasionally call a post ridiculous, or very occasionally call a post imbecilic or moronic, when I believe it to be so, and always have done; but I have never had any intention of starting a flame war. I'm not sure whether that's what you mean by flaming? If so, I'm attacking the post, not the poster, so I don't consider it to be abuse. Maybe I should try to moderate my language a bit though.

a lot of historians and fans like to remind us that Duran quit, no matter how great he is and how much he has achieved before and after, the stain is there

They still mostly consider him a top 10 P4P of all time, despite that stain, so it's not as big a deal as you imply.

[Tiozzo]

Obviously because it worsened a lot in the ninth round.



Pascal had a dislocated shoulder, Vitali had a badly torn rotator cufff. They are completely different. Just because it was a shoulder injury doesn't make it similar. And you have no idea how much pain either fighter was in.



Which means those who are medically more able to bear it require less courage in order do so than those who are medically less able to bear it require.

Vitali has no problem with bearing the pain of being hit by a punch, or by being badly cut, which is the sort of pain boxers normally have to contend with. But he had a problem with that particular injury, and no one but him has any idea how much pain he was in.

Plus Vitali was still fairly green, and has matured enormously since then; and people change as they mature.



The point is that Carlisle clearly doesn't, or if he does, is pretending that he doesn't.



It's totally relevant, because if Carlisle had been telling the truth, Byrd would have been way ahead on the cards when Vitali quit, whereas he was way behind on the cards. Carlisle was implying that it was Byrd who made him quit, whereas Byrd had nothing to do with it, because Vitali was winning easily.

To give an analogy, when Liston quit against Ali, you could argue that Ali may have destroyed him psychologically, and that that's why Liston quit (especially as Liston didn't require an operation afterwards). But that clearly wasn't the case with the Vitali-Byrd fight. It was purely down to the injury and had nothing to do with Byrd.



Duran answered the questions about his heart in many subsequent fights. For instance he showed tremendous heart against Iran Barkley. And Vitali answered the questions about his in the Lewis fight.



I don't ever "protect" anyone. I'll defend any fighter against irrational attacks, and I always have done. I still find Wlad boring (which is part of the reason I keep getting reds from his more extreme fans), but I can understand why he adopted a boring style, and I think he's been getting a lot less boring in recent fights. He has also improved significantly in the last couple of years, in terms of skills and ring intelligence, and has made considerable efforts in the past two years to fight the best possible opposition. And some of his recent opponents, while far from great, were good fighters, who would have been top 10 fighters in many other eras. E.g. I consider Chambers comparable skill-wise and speed-wise to both Byrd and Jimmy Young. As a result of all that, plus his sheer longevity and dominance as a title holder, he is now being considered to be getting fairly close to being at least a borderline ATG, not just by me, but by a lot of respected boxing experts, and that wasn't the case a couple of years ago, when I first started posting here.

And because of all of that, the attacks on the K bros and especially on Wlad are becoming increasingly irrational, and I am therefore more likely to write posts defending them than used to be the case.

Also, I generally defended Haye, or at least gave him the benefit of the doubt, until he blatantly ducked Wlad this year, whereas I now consider him to be a laughing stock, and that may affect the way other people think of my posts about the K brothers.



I occasionally call a post ridiculous, or very occasionally call a post imbecilic or moronic, when I believe it to be so, and always have done; but I have never had any intention of starting a flame war. I'm not sure whether that's what you mean by flaming? If so, I'm attacking the post, not the poster, so I don't consider it to be abuse. Maybe I should try to moderate my language a bit though.



They still mostly consider him a top 10 P4P of all time, despite that stain, so it's not as big a deal as you imply.

I appreciate your intellectual honesty (I don't know if this translates well from my language to english) and I respect your opinion, I'll leave it at that

[vitali1999]

Abraham is full of wanker. Peter was 13 pounds lighter for the rematch and Klitschko is so good he made Peter look ameturish. Peter swung big but Klit leaned out of the way, as far as the other clowns in the HW division, Valuev and Haye have repeatedly turned down offers to fight both brothers.