oldgringo thoughts on Hopkins/Taylor

[Manny_P]

Once again, reading comprehension buddy. And arguing this point against you is useless since you wouldn't believe the sky is blue if I told you it was. Read my previous post and my logical reasons for a possible 10-8, then if you feel the need to make another random, inane comment; feel free to.

so..............what are you tryin to say?


nyahahahahhaha!

[Parodius]

A draw from you means that Taylor won the fight. You been backing Hopkins on every thread. So it really doesn't surprise me. Giving rounds 3, 5 & 9 to Hopkins. HAHAHA. Taylor won round 3 clearly, rounds 5 & 9 was a 10-10 rounds.

[NiGe2011]

Hey Gringo, I have held off on commenting on the fight but just watched it again and wanted to throw my two cents at you. First I agree with you post on alot of points, mostly becuase I had the EXACT SAME SCORECARD, but I should have expected great things from somebody with Kweli in their sig. Anyway, here are a collection of my thoughts.

--Alot of the rounds that HBO said Taylor was wiping out in the first half of the fight were certainly very close. That being said, I thought it pretty clear that Hopkins took rounds three and rounds five. HBO agreed that Hop took round five and Roy Jones seemed to think that he took round four as well. I think it is pretty crazy that Hop did not get two of those rounds somewhere in those first eight on all cards.

--That being said, even if that is the case then Hopkins would have gotten the draw and kept his belts but would not have won the fight on my cards. BEST CASE SCENARIO for supporters of Hopkins is that he took three four and five, and thus should have eaked out a close decision, but I really feel like giving four to the executioner would have been a reach.

--I think even the most loyal of Hopkins fans would admit that he probably started a round or two too late. Did he start at a point in which maybe he should have kept his belts via the draw, sure I think so. But it is SHOCKING to me that at this stage Hopkins would even let it be that close when I think that he had control otherwise.

--Taylor's early gameplan was not that bad even though he tired out late. He did exactly what I thought he had to do at the start of the fight and that is to try and pressure Hopkins. However, if he wants to win the rematch he is going to have to be more effective or he will miss alot, get countered, and fade at the end once again. One thing I did not like about what Taylor did was he seemed a little formuliac, and that made him easier to counter then he should have been. For the first six rounds of the fight you knew what was going to happen when Taylor stepped in, it was either 'jab, jab', or 'jab, jab, right'. It was pretty rare that he led with a powershot or mixed in the left hook into his exchanges.

--BOTH FIGHTERS did alot of things right in this fight, and that is probably why it is so easy to see a draw. Hopkins was able to save his energy and surge late like he wanted, Taylor was able to win the early part of the fight by outworking Hopkins like he wanted. In a rematch it is going to be the fighter that is able to do more then that who will win.

--It was really tough for me to sit through alot of the HBO stuff. I am not a Hopkins fan really, but have alot of respect for what he has done. Usually I would be annoyed with how pro-Hopkins Roy Jones was throughout the fight, however it was tolerable in light of how anti-Hopkins everybody else was!

--In the post fight interview I was really impessed with how polite and humble Jermain Taylor was (as he always is). Hopkins had a grace and class that he ruled the division with, it is good to know that even if Hopkins wins in the rematch there is somebody who will rule the division with a grace and class of their own (even if it is of a very different sort) in the post-Hopkins era (as I expect Taylor will do regardless of what happens in the rematch). Lou DiBella was a complete sleaze-bag throughout the entire process though, and it is too bad that Taylor involves himself with such a jerk. I wanted to punch him in the post-fight when he said that a chapter in his life was over, he did not do a damn thing, this was about Hopkins and Taylor NOT DiBella and Hopkins no matter what anybody says. DiBella needs to get over himself.

--I almost felt like crying when I saw Hopkins face as the decision was announced. It was like somebody just punched him in the stomach, he says "and still" only to hear Buffer say "and new" a split second later. I thought it should have been a draw, but I would have rather seen the benefit of the doubt go to Hopkins then Jermain just because this is Hopkins swan song. Jermain will have years and years to win and defend his belts, Hopkins no longer has that luxury. But as long as Hopkins is OK with what went down inside himself, then all is good. If he really means what he said to Larry, if he thinks he won and that is good enough for him, then I think that is all that matters and Executioner fan's should take comfort in that. As Hopkins said just before they cut Larry's mic to go to Roy and Jim- '**** 'em'. Disgruntled Hopkins fans should relax and take the same attitude.

--See everybody at the rematch.

[wmute]

after seeing the fight a 2nd time, I am getting convinced that hop got robbed. everytime he hit on clinches or while infighting were seldom noticed by the HBO crew, except roy jones. sometimes he hit taylor with 4 or 5 punches to the head in a row, in the early rounds and no one noticed.

instead, they went wild with the crowd everytime taylor shot a right on hopkins gloves.

this was a close fight. but with no audio on, there is no way I could have taylor winning, hopkins 115-113, a draw, anything, but not taylor winning.

a footnote hopkins holding and hitting was disgusting and perfect, I don't think there has been a great fighter so scientifically dirty since roberto duran, I hate dirty fighters usually but these two made an art out of it (like duran's low blows...)

[Parodius]

after seeing the fight a 2nd time, I am getting convinced that hop got robbed. everytime he hit on clinches or while infighting were seldom noticed by the HBO crew, except roy jones. sometimes he hit taylor with 4 or 5 punches to the head in a row, in the early rounds and no one noticed.

instead, they went wild with the crowd everytime taylor shot a right on hopkins gloves.

this was a close fight. but with no audio on, there is no way I could have taylor winning, hopkins 115-113, a draw, anything, but not taylor winning.

a footnote hopkins holding and hitting was disgusting and perfect, I don't think there has been a great fighter so scientifically dirty since roberto duran, I hate dirty fighters usually but these two made an art out of it (like duran's low blows...)

That shows how much you really know. You are counting all the dirty fouls for Hopkins. Go lick his balls now.

[tracylee]

One of the things I've been trying to determine is whether or not I can give Hopkins a 10-8 round in the 10th. Now, in most fights that round would simply be a 10-9, but relative to all other 11 rounds that one was explosive. Landing 15 power punches, which was the total number landed by Taylor the first 4 rounnds... any thoughts?

You dont give 10-8 rds just cause one rd. was a little more exciting than the rest. Thats the same as giving a guy a rd. cause he did a little better in that rd. than he did in the previous rds.

OG. I only disagree with rd. 3 & 9 of your card....glad a SEVERE hopkins fan can be objective, and glad you also dont think that the term "robbery" is fitting!

[Bombardier]

Nice take on the fight, gringo, I had Taylor winning but like you said a draw or a 115-113 win either way is fine.

Even though I think the robbery comments people are making are dumb I am actually glad to see so many Hopkins fans around. With the haters usually being so loud I was starting to think his fan base was actually quite small. Whenever we do one of those favourite fighters threads here Hopkins is always in my #1 spot so I am a huge fan of his even though I didn't think he won on this night.

Anyway, no need to feel too bad for Bernard. Remember, after this fight he was going to go up to light heavy so his winning streak would have still ended. It just would have been 21 instead of 20...no big difference, really. And once he retires his legend will grow even more, I think. Actually this loss probably won him more fans and support, like what happened with Dempsey after the losses to Tunney.

[STEELHEAD]

I just recently watched Hopkins Taylor (last night and this morning in fact) and I want to voice my opinion on it now that I've actually seen the fight. I know there are already a million threads about it but you can eat me if you don't like it, i've been here for a year dammit.

I scored the fight like this:

Round 1 - Taylor
Round 2 - Taylor
Round 3 - Hopkins
Round 4 - Taylor
Round 5 - Hopkins
Round 6 - Taylor
Round 7 - Taylor
Round 8 - Taylor
Round 9 - Hopkins
Round 10 - Hopkins
Round 11 - Hopkins
Round 12 - Hopkins

I had it 114-114, a draw. It was just like everyone said, Taylors aggressiveness gained him the majority of the early rounds, and Hopkins mastery of the sport swept him the championship rounds.

A few things I noticed:

I gave round 3 to B-Hop because of CLEAN punching and excellent defense. As aggressive as Taylor was in the round...he landed nothing of note except for a couple of good jabs. Nard landed a good left counter at about 1:45, a good right hand lead at :50, a good hook in the last few seconds...all were clean. Hopkins was controlling the pace in the first half of the round, Taylor was dictating late in the round. Close round to Hopkins though for the defense and clean shots.

Hopkins landed a little right hand and a left hook in the fifth round early on...at about 2:30. Taylor got back at him right after the cut by rushing him and scoring maybe once in that flurry...but it looked pretty. Hopkins immediately came back with the left hook which hit the top of Taylors head...and he caught him with a big right hand at about 1:03. Taylor really didn't do much in round apart for the left hook at the end of the round which didn't completely land flush and the flurry after the cut. Round 5 for Hopkins for clean punches, defense, and for good movement that set up Taylor for clean power shots.

I don't have much to say about Taylors work because he never really did anything spectacular for me in the fight. He outworked Hopkins and did a good job of pressing him early. His flurries to the body were working for him, and they looked good. I was impressed with his hand speed when flurrying, but he threw a LOT of sloppy punches. His combination in round 6 at :38 seconds was a good example of what he should have been doing more of. Round 2 was also a very good round for Jermain.

Overall it was Hopkins who did more damage, but Taylor did his thing early and did what he was supposed to. The closet rounds that I saw were rounds 3 and 7. I thought Taylor won 7 for the extra work he put in and Hopkins took 3 for the reasons I explained above.

I thought Hopkins legitimately hurt Taylor with that huge right hand in round 10 (Taylor held on for dear life and Nady actually had to rip Taylor off of Hop), and he stunned him a little in the 11th and 12th. Hopkins was the only one landing any significant shots.

In conclusion, I don't get why everyone was thinking that Hopkins fought so incredibly dirty or anything because he brought the fight that he ALWAYS brings to the table. Taylor was doing plenty of holding himself. I think Taylor also did a lot to make Hopkins look dirtier like constantly turning away from him. It was a good fight overall and I don't have much of a problem with the decision. I think it was a bonafide draw but I can see how you could score it 115-113 Taylor or even 115-113 Hopkins. The biggest idiots were Jerry Roth for 116-112 Hop (honestly that's crazy) and Duane Ford for scoring the 12th round to Taylor.

I look forward to the rematch and think Hopkins will win a convincing but close fight. Much respect to Jermain for beating an all-time great like Hop. Sorry this post was so long.

thats pretty good. i opted to have three even rounds. and ended up with a 116/115 taylor. the 9th was close enough to make even. the 12th was definitely hopkins.

with more training i see taylor making thos glancing blows land .and taylor staying away from the headbutts (including the one to the jaw) and being on top in the latter rounds.

taylor burnt up a lot of energy early throwing those ragefull glancing blows.

taylor aquired 2 years of expierience in that fight and will be ready for hopkins.

[Riptor]

I am in agreeance with you Gringo however remember that you have to take a champions title not draw or just make it. Jermaine did well but not well enough in my opinion for the title to change hands. However he gest props for winning. but the rematch should prove to be different.

[Dirt E Gomez]

You dont give 10-8 rds just cause one rd. was a little more exciting than the rest. Thats the same as giving a guy a rd. cause he did a little better in that rd. than he did in the previous rds.

It doesn't have to do with excitement, or else round 2 would have gone for 10-8 Taylor because Hopkins stumbled when hit on the top of the head. I'm suggesting that relative to the other rounds it was a huge one. He had Taylor visibly holding on for dear life and landed shot after shot.