No focused american heavyweights

[Steak]

Only America offers sports besides boxing. I can't believe that, I was under the impression that the rest of the world played all different kinds of sports too. Bizzare that only America's best potential boxers end up playing different sports.

no one has ever said that numbskull.

If more HWs from basketball and football chose boxing instead of those sports, America would have better HWs. THIS IS TRUE.

If more Europeans focused on boxing instead of Soccor/Football, then Europe would have better HWs too. THIS IS ALSO TRUE.

Its really not hard to understand. in the end, all these 'what ifs' are just petty excuses. no country is born with 'superior athletes' or 'better fighters', its all about how they train, which is why boxing has had world champions from a huge variety of different countries.

[RimmyDelicious]

no one has ever said that numbskull.

If more HWs from basketball and football chose boxing instead of those sports, America would have better HWs. THIS IS TRUE.

If more Europeans focused on boxing instead of Soccor/Football, then Europe would have better HWs too. THIS IS ALSO TRUE.

Its really not hard to understand. in the end, all these 'what ifs' are just petty excuses. no country is born with 'superior athletes' or 'better fighters', its all about how they train, which is why boxing has had world champions from a huge variety of different countries.

You're resorting to calling me numbskull because you are fully aware that during periods of American dominance in any weightclass, no European or Asian or South American fan has ever claimed that the only reason that America was dominant was because all their best athletes played other games. American fans, however, do this constantly.

[Steak]

The Soviets didn't have the money/funds to develop the amatuer system during the cold war. All of the big strong athletic Soviets were forced to go into the military.

Ali, Foreman, Frazier, etc weren't even real world champions because they never competed against the best Soviet athletes.

Foreman KOed the best Soviet HW in the world at age 19.
Frazier did better at age 20 than Vadim Yemelyanov when he won the Gold medal at HW
Ali was more successful than any Soviet at LHW when he won gold in 1960.

These were the best Soviet boxers at the time. Dont give me this 'best athletes' stuff. you cant just pick out a good athlete and say 'well Frazier would have lost if this guy was trained in boxing from childhood'

[Steak]

You're resorting to calling me numbskull because you are fully aware that during periods of American dominance in any weightclass, no European or Asian or South American fan has ever claimed that the only reason that America was dominant was because all their best athletes played other games. American fans, however, do this constantly.

give me a break. if you bring up a thread like this and someone asks why there are no good HW Americans, then someone will answer with that explanation...which is the truth.

if someone tries using that as an actual excuse and tries to say that America would dominate 'if so and so', then I would call them stupid too, because boxers are made, not born.

[RimmyDelicious]

give me a break. if you bring up a thread like this and someone asks why there are no good HW Americans, then someone will answer with that explanation...which is the truth.

if someone tries using that as an actual excuse and tries to say that America would dominate 'if so and so', then I would call them stupid too, because boxers are made, not born.

As I said, I hear fellow Americans claim that the only reason that there isn't American heavyweight dominance is because of other sports taking the best athletes. No other nation's fans ever claim that they don't dominate a division because their best athletes are playing other sports.

Simple as that.

[Steelhammer2011]

The NBA/NFL excuse is weak and pathetic.

There are tons of potential Eastern European Heavyweight Boxers who are doing Combat Sambo, MMA, Kickboxing, Hockey, Olympic Wrestling, Olympic Weightlifting, Powerlifting, Worlds Strongest Man Competitions, etc.

America isn't the only country in the world that has other sports.

[Steak]

As I said, I hear fellow Americans claim that the only reason that there isn't American heavyweight dominance is because of other sports taking the best athletes. No other nation's fans ever claim that they don't dominate a division because their best athletes are playing other sports.

Simple as that.

I dont know about 'dominance', but yes, America would obviously be doing much better if the NFL/NBA athletes were in boxing instead. its true. but its also a petty excuse .

just as much of a petty excuse as you

Pshhhh....everyone knows the best Eastern European boxers were busy playing Hockey back then.

and Steelhammer

The Soviets didn't have the money/funds to develop the amatuer system during the cold war. All of the big strong athletic Soviets were forced to go into the military.

use.

I will leave it as this: if an American claims that the best American HWs are in the NFL/NBA and otherwise America would be dominating, then its just a weak excuse.
and its just as weak an excuse to say that the Soviets would be dominating the 70s if the best Soviet athletes were trained in boxing instead.

[RimmyDelicious]

I dont know about 'dominance', but yes, America would obviously be doing much better if the NFL/NBA athletes were in boxing instead. its true. but its also a petty excuse .

just as much of a petty excuse as you

and Steelhammer

use.

I will leave it as this: if an American claims that the best American HWs are in the NFL/NBA and otherwise America would be dominating, then its just a weak excuse.
and its just as weak an excuse to say that the Soviets would be dominating the 70s if the best Soviet athletes were trained in boxing instead.

I was being facetious you imbecile. Obviously I am fully aware that American dominance of the heavyweight division for most of the last 100 years had nothing to do with athletes from other nations playing other sports. It's completely irrelevent. You, on the other hand, are calling the excuse 'petty' while still claiming that it is true that American heavyweight boxing is impeded by the NBA and NFL. One of us is a hypocrite. I think you know which one.

[Steak]

I was being facetious you imbecile. Obviously I am fully aware that American dominance of the heavyweight division for most of the last 100 years had nothing to do with athletes from other nations playing other sports. It's completely irrelevent. You, on the other hand, are calling the excuse 'petty' while still claiming that it is true that American heavyweight boxing is impeded by the NBA and NFL. One of us is a hypocrite. I think you know which one.

I had a feeling you were beeing sarcastic, but honestly you can never tell sometimes on this forum. Ive heard worse excuses, really.

and how many times do I have to say this? Its not an excuse, its an explanation. If HW sized Americans were in boxing instead of NBA/NFL, there would be more good american HWs. am I saying they would dominate? absolutely not. but it would be better.

and it goes like that for EVERY nation. if they put more emphasis on boxing, they would have more top fighters in boxing. its common sense.

its true, and a legitimate explanation. but if you start making claims like 'this country would dominate if...', then it becomes an excuse, because youre not just explaining the situation, youre making blown up, unfounded claims.

[WladIsTheChamp]

well what do you expect? if a country's #1 sport is boxing, then obviously theyll have a lot of champions.

In theory if every guy in India loved boxing and trained it since they were kids, there would be a huge amount of Indian champions.

These 'what if's and excuses are mind numbing. 'If the USSR focused more on boxing it would have been better in boxing', well no ****. that could be said of any country anywhere.

and I mean that for American HWs too. 'If HW size Americans werent in football/basketball and trained for boxing at an early age instead' isnt an excuse. Its just an explanation.

it just irritates me when people say stuff like 'if the Soviets could have turned pro they would have ruled the division like today'. thats baloney. the best Soviet HWs fighting at the time lost in the Olympics to guys like Frazier, Foreman, Biggs, Rademacher, and Bowe, and this is before they even turned pro.

Good arguments, you do have a point. But you have to admit, had you had these Soviets turn pro prior to 1990, you wouldn't have seen the same dominance by the US HWs.