Dan Rafael SLAMS Arum & Pacquiao: "Why not just be honest?"

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  • Vito Corleone
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    #1

    Dan Rafael SLAMS Arum & Pacquiao: "Why not just be honest?"

    Arum disingenuous on picking Pac's foe


    July, 19, 2010


    From the moment Top Rank's Bob Arum began discussing terms for a fight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr. a couple of months ago, using HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg as a go-between with the Mayweather camp, he always knew there was a good chance the fight wouldn't happen this year. Mayweather simply isn't interested for reasons he has yet to disclose.



    So all the while, Arum, of course, was thinking about the backup plan for Pacquiao, who still intends to fight on Nov. 13 whether Mayweather is standing across the ring from him or whether somebody else is.



    Arum is wed to Pacquiao fighting either a rematch with Miguel Cotto or facing the disgraced one, Antonio Margarito, both at junior middleweight.



    That's it. No other options.



    Don't fool yourself -- the only reason those are the only two names in the discussion is because Top Rank promotes both of them and Arum wants to keep the fight in the family. It means he doesn't have to share anything with anyone. It means he'll have the winner. And it means he has total control of the promotion.

    It doesn't matter that there are better fights out there, or at least more interesting possibilities.

    When Pacquiao-Cotto was set for last November, I was as excited to cover it as any fight I've covered in recent years. But now I've seen the fight and it doesn't warrant a rematch. After about the fourth round, Pacquiao kicked the crap out of Cotto en route to a brutal 12th-round destruction. It was as definitive a result as can be.

    The best Arum could do when asked what the attraction of a Cotto rematch would be was to say: "Manny would be going for an eighth divisional world title, fighting at a higher weight and that Miguel would have in his corner Emanuel Steward -- one of the great cornermen of our time. That certainly would give Cotto more ammunition than going into the fight last time."

    The title aspect is mildly intriguing but it's not enough. And as much as I like and respect Steward, whom I consider a friend, I don't know anyone who ever bought a pay-per-view fight for the trainer.

    As for the Margarito fight? Not interested in seeing the undeserving cheater get the opportunity for a big fight. And that's not even mentioning that two fights ago he was utterly destroyed by Shane Mosley and has done nothing to deserve it from a competitive point of view, either. A 16-month layoff followed the shellacking by Mosley because Margarito had his license revoked due to the hand-wrapping scandal stemming from the fight. And in his May comeback fight in Mexico, Margarito looked bad outpointing a nobody. And now I should be excited to see Margarito, who isn't even licensed in the United States because of the scandal, fight Pacquiao? Sorry.


    It's a shame Arum is limiting Pacquiao's options only to Top Rank fighters when there are at least some other names that could -- at the very least -- be considered.


    Why not consider Andre Berto, an undefeated welterweight titleholder who has been on HBO a million times? What about Paul Williams, who continues to call for Pacquiao and insist he can make welterweight? You may have seen him on HBO also, including the time he beat Margarito. Why not Timothy Bradley Jr., the fine junior welterweight titlist who tried out welterweight and dominated Luis Carlos Abregu on HBO on Saturday night? Bradley, with Max Kellerman's HBO microphone in front of him after the fight Saturday, called out Pacquiao.


    "I'm making the challenge right now. Manny Pacquiao, come break down this wall, baby," he said. "Manny, come break down this wall. I challenge Manny Pacquiao at 147 pounds."


    Bradley and his people know he has absolutely no shot at getting the fight, which is why after making those comments he returned to reality and talked about real fights that have a chance to happen against other junior welterweights.

    Berto and Williams also have zero chance to land a Pacquiao fight, and that's not only because they're represented by Al Haymon, who also is Mayweather's adviser. Haymon and Arum despise each other. If they can't even be mature enough to talk directly with each other to try to make the big fight -- Pacquiao-Mayweather -- what makes you think they'd work together on a smaller one?


    The reason Arum gave for not even considering Berto, Williams or Bradley is because, he says, they just don't bring name recognition (i.e. money) to the table.

    "Tim Bradley is a tremendous fighter and he's a great young man, but the problem with a guy like Tim Bradley is that even though you and I know what a superb fighter he is, the public really doesn't know," Arum said. "That's why a lot of these promoters are shouting out names of very good fighters. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars building up our fighters and publicizing them so they are pay-per-view attractions. Losing money on a lot of events making them. The other promoters don't really promote their fighters. They take money from HBO or Showtime or a little Indian casino and they think they're doing the kid a big service. I'm not going to give them a free ride on the work we have done.


    "Paul Williams is a tremendous fighter -- a great fighter. But he hasn't been promoted correctly. He doesn't have any following, can't sell any tickets. Nobody is financing the pay-per-view fight. On an HBO fight, HBO pays the money. I'm the one that's financing the pay-per-view and don't want to give anyone a free ride."

    Arum makes some valid points. He has indeed spent a lot of money and taken losses along the way to help build his fighters. He's been doing it for years, which is why Top Rank is so successful.



    Arum is also right when he says Berto, Williams and Bradley are not attractions yet. They don't pack the house. They have no experience as pay-per-view headliners even though all three are outstanding fighters. And, frankly, Arum is right when he says they could all be promoted better.



    But the reason I think Arum is full of it is because in Pacquiao's March 13 fight, made because Pacquiao-Mayweather didn't happen then either, he put Pacquiao in the ring against Joshua Clottey of Ghana.



    Clottey makes the Berto, Williams, Bradley trio look as famous as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. You want to talk about Berto, Williams and Bradley not being attractions, so be it. But Clottey was waaaaayyyyyyy less known than all of them going into his winning-lottery-ticket fight with Pacquiao. The spare change under my couch cushions would probably add up to more money than Clottey could bring to the table. But guess who promotes Clottey? A-r-u-m.



    So that's where Arum's argument goes off track. It's disingenuous and nothing but a weak smoke screen.



    Clottey was known only to hard-core boxing fans and had a zero fan base. Yet despite such obscurity, Pacquiao, with the help of the curiosity surrounding a fight taking place at Cowboys Stadium for the first time, sold 700,000 pay-per-view subscriptions.



    So if Pacquiao-Clottey can sell like that, I have absolutely no doubt that Pacquiao against Berto, Williams or Bradley would all do more than that. All three are more exciting fighters than Clottey. All three have more interesting personalities. All three are American.



    So Arum can shoot them down by claiming they don't mean anything, which maybe they don't, but why not just be honest for a change? Tell the truth yesterday and tell it again today.


    Say what we all know: Unless Pacquiao is fighting the big one, Arum wants to keep it all in the family.



    That's bad for boxing. And bad for the fans.
  • WYNO
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    #2
    why be mad at manny he fighting november 13. floyd aint fighting no one tell him 2 fight paul or who ever you guys want.manny fighting margarito that aint no walk in the park

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    • ИATAS
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      #3
      slams him for fighting margarito? oh well, at least pac is fighting this year again.

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      • Vito Corleone
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        #4
        Originally posted by WYNO
        why be mad at manny he fighting november 13. floyd aint fighting no one tell him 2 fight paul or who ever you guys want.manny fighting margarito that aint no walk in the park
        As Rafael said, when is the last time you saw Margarito looking good in the ring?

        Now, let me ask you, when is the last time you saw Margarito looking good in a ring, and feel 100% sure he was not cheating?

        Why is Manny picking the weakest possible opponents?

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        • Jack Napier
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          #5
          not reading that
          everybody knows the score
          Tony is with Arum so in lieu of Floyd, Tony gets the fight
          the truth is hardly hidden :laugh:

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          • ИATAS
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            #6
            Originally posted by Vito Corleone
            As Rafael said, when is the last time you saw Margarito looking good in the ring?

            Now, let me ask you, when is the last time you saw Margarito looking good in a ring, and feel 100% sure he was not cheating?

            Why is Manny picking the weakest possible opponents?
            isn't it obvious? $$$$$$$$$$$$$

            Seriously, fat Dan already broke down why P-Will and Berto wont happen (al haymon).

            So that leaves who?
            Tim Bradley.
            Cotto.
            Margarito.

            Anyone else?

            Out of those three people, who would sell the most PPV wise? Add to that if the fight is in the mid-east, where supposedly $30 million has been offered well I think you got yourself an answer.

            PERSONALLY, I would want to see pac vs berto, as unifying 147 is more impressive then winning some paper belt at 154.

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            • Vito Corleone
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              #7
              Originally posted by Jack Napier
              not reading that
              everybody knows the score
              Tony is with Arum so in lieu of Floyd, Tony gets the fight
              the truth is hardly hidden :laugh:
              JN,

              Which would you rather see?

              Pac-Margarito, Pac-Bradley or Pac-Williams?

              Comment

              • Rick Grimes
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                #8
                Originally posted by WYNO
                why be mad at manny he fighting november 13. floyd aint fighting no one tell him 2 fight paul or who ever you guys want.manny fighting margarito that aint no walk in the park
                Please tell me in what part of that article does he blame Pacquiao for anything. He is talking about the lying ***** ARUM.

                Comment

                • mikelovesfood
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Vito Corleone
                  Arum disingenuous on picking Pac's foe


                  July, 19, 2010


                  From the moment Top Rank's Bob Arum began discussing terms for a fight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr. a couple of months ago, using HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg as a go-between with the Mayweather camp, he always knew there was a good chance the fight wouldn't happen this year. Mayweather simply isn't interested for reasons he has yet to disclose.



                  So all the while, Arum, of course, was thinking about the backup plan for Pacquiao, who still intends to fight on Nov. 13 whether Mayweather is standing across the ring from him or whether somebody else is.



                  Arum is wed to Pacquiao fighting either a rematch with Miguel Cotto or facing the disgraced one, Antonio Margarito, both at junior middleweight.



                  That's it. No other options.



                  Don't fool yourself -- the only reason those are the only two names in the discussion is because Top Rank promotes both of them and Arum wants to keep the fight in the family. It means he doesn't have to share anything with anyone. It means he'll have the winner. And it means he has total control of the promotion.

                  It doesn't matter that there are better fights out there, or at least more interesting possibilities.

                  When Pacquiao-Cotto was set for last November, I was as excited to cover it as any fight I've covered in recent years. But now I've seen the fight and it doesn't warrant a rematch. After about the fourth round, Pacquiao kicked the crap out of Cotto en route to a brutal 12th-round destruction. It was as definitive a result as can be.

                  The best Arum could do when asked what the attraction of a Cotto rematch would be was to say: "Manny would be going for an eighth divisional world title, fighting at a higher weight and that Miguel would have in his corner Emanuel Steward -- one of the great cornermen of our time. That certainly would give Cotto more ammunition than going into the fight last time."

                  The title aspect is mildly intriguing but it's not enough. And as much as I like and respect Steward, whom I consider a friend, I don't know anyone who ever bought a pay-per-view fight for the trainer.

                  As for the Margarito fight? Not interested in seeing the undeserving cheater get the opportunity for a big fight. And that's not even mentioning that two fights ago he was utterly destroyed by Shane Mosley and has done nothing to deserve it from a competitive point of view, either. A 16-month layoff followed the shellacking by Mosley because Margarito had his license revoked due to the hand-wrapping scandal stemming from the fight. And in his May comeback fight in Mexico, Margarito looked bad outpointing a nobody. And now I should be excited to see Margarito, who isn't even licensed in the United States because of the scandal, fight Pacquiao? Sorry.


                  It's a shame Arum is limiting Pacquiao's options only to Top Rank fighters when there are at least some other names that could -- at the very least -- be considered.


                  Why not consider Andre Berto, an undefeated welterweight titleholder who has been on HBO a million times? What about Paul Williams, who continues to call for Pacquiao and insist he can make welterweight? You may have seen him on HBO also, including the time he beat Margarito. Why not Timothy Bradley Jr., the fine junior welterweight titlist who tried out welterweight and dominated Luis Carlos Abregu on HBO on Saturday night? Bradley, with Max Kellerman's HBO microphone in front of him after the fight Saturday, called out Pacquiao.


                  "I'm making the challenge right now. Manny Pacquiao, come break down this wall, baby," he said. "Manny, come break down this wall. I challenge Manny Pacquiao at 147 pounds."


                  Bradley and his people know he has absolutely no shot at getting the fight, which is why after making those comments he returned to reality and talked about real fights that have a chance to happen against other junior welterweights.

                  Berto and Williams also have zero chance to land a Pacquiao fight, and that's not only because they're represented by Al Haymon, who also is Mayweather's adviser. Haymon and Arum despise each other. If they can't even be mature enough to talk directly with each other to try to make the big fight -- Pacquiao-Mayweather -- what makes you think they'd work together on a smaller one?


                  The reason Arum gave for not even considering Berto, Williams or Bradley is because, he says, they just don't bring name recognition (i.e. money) to the table.

                  "Tim Bradley is a tremendous fighter and he's a great young man, but the problem with a guy like Tim Bradley is that even though you and I know what a superb fighter he is, the public really doesn't know," Arum said. "That's why a lot of these promoters are shouting out names of very good fighters. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars building up our fighters and publicizing them so they are pay-per-view attractions. Losing money on a lot of events making them. The other promoters don't really promote their fighters. They take money from HBO or Showtime or a little Indian casino and they think they're doing the kid a big service. I'm not going to give them a free ride on the work we have done.


                  "Paul Williams is a tremendous fighter -- a great fighter. But he hasn't been promoted correctly. He doesn't have any following, can't sell any tickets. Nobody is financing the pay-per-view fight. On an HBO fight, HBO pays the money. I'm the one that's financing the pay-per-view and don't want to give anyone a free ride."

                  Arum makes some valid points. He has indeed spent a lot of money and taken losses along the way to help build his fighters. He's been doing it for years, which is why Top Rank is so successful.



                  Arum is also right when he says Berto, Williams and Bradley are not attractions yet. They don't pack the house. They have no experience as pay-per-view headliners even though all three are outstanding fighters. And, frankly, Arum is right when he says they could all be promoted better.



                  But the reason I think Arum is full of it is because in Pacquiao's March 13 fight, made because Pacquiao-Mayweather didn't happen then either, he put Pacquiao in the ring against Joshua Clottey of Ghana.



                  Clottey makes the Berto, Williams, Bradley trio look as famous as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. You want to talk about Berto, Williams and Bradley not being attractions, so be it. But Clottey was waaaaayyyyyyy less known than all of them going into his winning-lottery-ticket fight with Pacquiao. The spare change under my couch cushions would probably add up to more money than Clottey could bring to the table. But guess who promotes Clottey? A-r-u-m.



                  So that's where Arum's argument goes off track. It's disingenuous and nothing but a weak smoke screen.



                  Clottey was known only to hard-core boxing fans and had a zero fan base. Yet despite such obscurity, Pacquiao, with the help of the curiosity surrounding a fight taking place at Cowboys Stadium for the first time, sold 700,000 pay-per-view subscriptions.



                  So if Pacquiao-Clottey can sell like that, I have absolutely no doubt that Pacquiao against Berto, Williams or Bradley would all do more than that. All three are more exciting fighters than Clottey. All three have more interesting personalities. All three are American.



                  So Arum can shoot them down by claiming they don't mean anything, which maybe they don't, but why not just be honest for a change? Tell the truth yesterday and tell it again today.


                  Say what we all know: Unless Pacquiao is fighting the big one, Arum wants to keep it all in the family.



                  That's bad for boxing. And bad for the fans.
                  Was the big font necessary? Arum made solid points on why he doesnt want make a fight w/ Berto or Williams even Bradley, but Dan had a great point too pointing out that Clottey was a no name as well.

                  Arum will ultimately have to take more risks. Williams @ 147 would be a great win for Pac but it just seems to far fetch. Berto would be ideal because he has a belt. Berto or Bradley IMHO, but I'm leaning more towards to Berto at the moment.

                  Comment

                  • goldenglove2
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Vito Corleone
                    Arum disingenuous on picking Pac's foe


                    July, 19, 2010


                    From the moment Top Rank's Bob Arum began discussing terms for a fight between Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr. a couple of months ago, using HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg as a go-between with the Mayweather camp, he always knew there was a good chance the fight wouldn't happen this year. Mayweather simply isn't interested for reasons he has yet to disclose.



                    So all the while, Arum, of course, was thinking about the backup plan for Pacquiao, who still intends to fight on Nov. 13 whether Mayweather is standing across the ring from him or whether somebody else is.



                    Arum is wed to Pacquiao fighting either a rematch with Miguel Cotto or facing the disgraced one, Antonio Margarito, both at junior middleweight.



                    That's it. No other options.



                    Don't fool yourself -- the only reason those are the only two names in the discussion is because Top Rank promotes both of them and Arum wants to keep the fight in the family. It means he doesn't have to share anything with anyone. It means he'll have the winner. And it means he has total control of the promotion.

                    It doesn't matter that there are better fights out there, or at least more interesting possibilities.

                    When Pacquiao-Cotto was set for last November, I was as excited to cover it as any fight I've covered in recent years. But now I've seen the fight and it doesn't warrant a rematch. After about the fourth round, Pacquiao kicked the crap out of Cotto en route to a brutal 12th-round destruction. It was as definitive a result as can be.

                    The best Arum could do when asked what the attraction of a Cotto rematch would be was to say: "Manny would be going for an eighth divisional world title, fighting at a higher weight and that Miguel would have in his corner Emanuel Steward -- one of the great cornermen of our time. That certainly would give Cotto more ammunition than going into the fight last time."

                    The title aspect is mildly intriguing but it's not enough. And as much as I like and respect Steward, whom I consider a friend, I don't know anyone who ever bought a pay-per-view fight for the trainer.

                    As for the Margarito fight? Not interested in seeing the undeserving cheater get the opportunity for a big fight. And that's not even mentioning that two fights ago he was utterly destroyed by Shane Mosley and has done nothing to deserve it from a competitive point of view, either. A 16-month layoff followed the shellacking by Mosley because Margarito had his license revoked due to the hand-wrapping scandal stemming from the fight. And in his May comeback fight in Mexico, Margarito looked bad outpointing a nobody. And now I should be excited to see Margarito, who isn't even licensed in the United States because of the scandal, fight Pacquiao? Sorry.


                    It's a shame Arum is limiting Pacquiao's options only to Top Rank fighters when there are at least some other names that could -- at the very least -- be considered.


                    Why not consider Andre Berto, an undefeated welterweight titleholder who has been on HBO a million times? What about Paul Williams, who continues to call for Pacquiao and insist he can make welterweight? You may have seen him on HBO also, including the time he beat Margarito. Why not Timothy Bradley Jr., the fine junior welterweight titlist who tried out welterweight and dominated Luis Carlos Abregu on HBO on Saturday night? Bradley, with Max Kellerman's HBO microphone in front of him after the fight Saturday, called out Pacquiao.


                    "I'm making the challenge right now. Manny Pacquiao, come break down this wall, baby," he said. "Manny, come break down this wall. I challenge Manny Pacquiao at 147 pounds."


                    Bradley and his people know he has absolutely no shot at getting the fight, which is why after making those comments he returned to reality and talked about real fights that have a chance to happen against other junior welterweights.

                    Berto and Williams also have zero chance to land a Pacquiao fight, and that's not only because they're represented by Al Haymon, who also is Mayweather's adviser. Haymon and Arum despise each other. If they can't even be mature enough to talk directly with each other to try to make the big fight -- Pacquiao-Mayweather -- what makes you think they'd work together on a smaller one?


                    The reason Arum gave for not even considering Berto, Williams or Bradley is because, he says, they just don't bring name recognition (i.e. money) to the table.

                    "Tim Bradley is a tremendous fighter and he's a great young man, but the problem with a guy like Tim Bradley is that even though you and I know what a superb fighter he is, the public really doesn't know," Arum said. "That's why a lot of these promoters are shouting out names of very good fighters. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars building up our fighters and publicizing them so they are pay-per-view attractions. Losing money on a lot of events making them. The other promoters don't really promote their fighters. They take money from HBO or Showtime or a little Indian casino and they think they're doing the kid a big service. I'm not going to give them a free ride on the work we have done.


                    "Paul Williams is a tremendous fighter -- a great fighter. But he hasn't been promoted correctly. He doesn't have any following, can't sell any tickets. Nobody is financing the pay-per-view fight. On an HBO fight, HBO pays the money. I'm the one that's financing the pay-per-view and don't want to give anyone a free ride."

                    Arum makes some valid points. He has indeed spent a lot of money and taken losses along the way to help build his fighters. He's been doing it for years, which is why Top Rank is so successful.



                    Arum is also right when he says Berto, Williams and Bradley are not attractions yet. They don't pack the house. They have no experience as pay-per-view headliners even though all three are outstanding fighters. And, frankly, Arum is right when he says they could all be promoted better.



                    But the reason I think Arum is full of it is because in Pacquiao's March 13 fight, made because Pacquiao-Mayweather didn't happen then either, he put Pacquiao in the ring against Joshua Clottey of Ghana.



                    Clottey makes the Berto, Williams, Bradley trio look as famous as LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh. You want to talk about Berto, Williams and Bradley not being attractions, so be it. But Clottey was waaaaayyyyyyy less known than all of them going into his winning-lottery-ticket fight with Pacquiao. The spare change under my couch cushions would probably add up to more money than Clottey could bring to the table. But guess who promotes Clottey? A-r-u-m.



                    So that's where Arum's argument goes off track. It's disingenuous and nothing but a weak smoke screen.



                    Clottey was known only to hard-core boxing fans and had a zero fan base. Yet despite such obscurity, Pacquiao, with the help of the curiosity surrounding a fight taking place at Cowboys Stadium for the first time, sold 700,000 pay-per-view subscriptions.



                    So if Pacquiao-Clottey can sell like that, I have absolutely no doubt that Pacquiao against Berto, Williams or Bradley would all do more than that. All three are more exciting fighters than Clottey. All three have more interesting personalities. All three are American.



                    So Arum can shoot them down by claiming they don't mean anything, which maybe they don't, but why not just be honest for a change? Tell the truth yesterday and tell it again today.


                    Say what we all know: Unless Pacquiao is fighting the big one, Arum wants to keep it all in the family.



                    That's bad for boxing. And bad for the fans.
                    Sorry, it is good for the fans. He isnt scared to put any of hs guys in their against tough opponents. Margo and Cotto are more of a threat than Bradley, period. Floyds on vacation....btw Hatton and Oscar, MAB, JMM are not promoted by Arum.

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