The Top 5 Featherweights of All Time?

[sisforshaq]

What is everyones list on the top 5 featherweights of all time? Tough call but Id go with..(Not a set order)

Salvador Sanchez
Willie Pep
Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Naseem Hamed

[Yogi]

What is everyones list on the top 5 featherweights of all time? Tough call but Id go with..(Not a set order)

Salvador Sanchez
Willie Pep
Marco Antonio Barrera
Erik Morales
Naseem Hamed

With the inclusion of Barrera, Morales, and Hamed, don't you think you're overloading what is suppose to be an "all-time" list with a few too many fighters from this era?

[Slipx]

nah, he's on point.

morales, barerra and hamed would stomp most other featherweight from past times asses, including pep.

id have that same list, but in this order of greatness.

morales
sanchez
barrera
pep
hamed

my current favorite featherweight is kevin kelley because i like guys who really have a love for the sport like him. he is a commentator and he went back into training while commentating and is starting to climb the ranks again, he'll commentate on friday, and then fight on saturday, stop the dude, then commentate the next friday and go over his own fight.its awesome. i like that ****.

hamed did annihilate him though

lol i remember in that fight george foreman really ****ed up.. Hamed or kelley forgot which one landed a good straight right hand near the end of the fight and foreman goes OOOOH A GOOD STRAIGHT LEFT HAND.. all of the commentators except merchant actually sounded far more novice than they are now, especially lampley..lampley sounded like a ****ing moron that night except for when he said LEAPING RIGHT HAND BY THE PRINCE

[Yogi]

Marco Antonio Barerra vs. Vincente Saldivar

Who wins, Slipx?

And if you think Barrera wins, I'd like to hear what weaknesses you actually saw from Saldivar that you think Marco could expose.

[Slipx]

Marco Antonio Barerra vs. Vincente Saldivar

Who wins, Slipx?

And if you think Barrera wins, I'd like to hear what weaknesses you actually saw from Saldivar that you think Marco could expose.

I never saw that Saldivar fella fight. Looks like a decent record, however you have to keep in mind most of his wins were accumulated in Mexico. I'm not saying Mexico is a gimped circuit, but back then, and now, it is definately a lesser circuit than climbing the professional ranks in the U.S.

I won't bring up his being KO'd in his last fight because he was probably out of his prime or whatever.

I'd like to say he has a questionable chin from being KO'd in his last fight, but again I've never seen him fight, never seen him dazed, or anything like that. So I can't really predict what would happen, because to me it looks like he only has one legitimate loss on his record. Out of the three one was a DQ, his corner threw in the towel in another one (or did he quit?) and in the last one he got ko'd. That guy fought a lot of bums, though, that's for sure.

my prediction though, is that barrera would take him out inside six rounds..just on the fact that he was KO'd and barrera comes to get that KO.. plus looking at sald's gimped opposition, its easy to say barrera is more experienced. really a no brainer imo.

[Yogi]

I never saw that Saldivar fella fight. Looks like a decent record, however you have to keep in mind most of his wins were accumulated in Mexico. I'm not saying Mexico is a gimped circuit, but back then, and now, it is definately a lesser circuit than climbing the professional ranks in the U.S.

I won't bring up his being KO'd in his last fight because he was probably out of his prime or whatever.

I'd like to say he has a questionable chin from being KO'd in his last fight, but again I've never seen him fight, never seen him dazed, or anything like that. So I can't really predict what would happen, because to me it looks like he only has one legitimate loss on his record. Out of the three one was a DQ, his corner threw in the towel in another one (or did he quit?) and in the last one he got ko'd. That guy fought a lot of bums, though, that's for sure.

my prediction though, is that barrera would take him out inside six rounds..just on the fact that he was KO'd and barrera comes to get that KO.. plus looking at sald's gimped opposition, its easy to say barrera is more experienced. really a no brainer imo.

What you have to keep in mind is we're only taking about the Featherweight versions of each of thse guys, so whatever Barrera did below and above the Featherweight range has no bearing on whose the better 126 pounder (this ain't a P4P discussion, obviously). And contary to what you may think, it appears to me Saldivar has the better Featherweight resume at the world class level. You're calling Saldivar's Featherweight opposition "bums"?

Ring's ratings from June of 1964;

Champion: Sugar Ramos

1: Ismael Laguna
2: Don Johnson
3: Howard Winstone
4: Mitsunori Seki
5: Floyd Robertson
6: Rafiu King
7: Willi Quator
8: Antonio Herrea
9: Danny Valdez
10: Danny Kid

Saldivar was still considered a top prospect when these rankings came out, but it was shortly after that when he defeated and dominated Ismael Laguna to gain the top contender. You know Laguna (HOF'er), don't you? Well he's a fighter who a short time later stepped up to Lightweight and defeated what most consider one of the ten greatest Lightweights of all-time, in Carlos Ortiz (The Ring ranked Ortiz 7th. And the ultra slick and talented, Laguna also appears as one of the Ring's 20 greatest Lightweights of all-time, as they had him listed 18th).

After gaining the number one conteder spot by virtue of his win over Laguna, Saldivar was then granted a title shot against the champion, Sugar Ramos. I've never actually seen that fight for myself, but I've read more than a few descriptions of it...And all of they say the same thing in regards to how easily Saldivar dominated and beat up on his strong, powerful and agressive opponent (Ramos is also a HOF'er, but was no match for Saldivar).

After winning the title from Ramos, Saldivar went on to defend the title more than a few times and they say he basically cleaned out the division before his first retirement. Among his victims; Howard Winstone x3 (another very slick, quick and ultra talented Featherweight from the day), Mitsunori Seki x2, Floyd Robertson and Raul Rojas...Now if you look back at those ratings I presented, Saldivar defeated everyone that was in the top six (and a couple of them multiple times), with the exception of Don Johnson (who was only ranked that highly because of an upset win over Winstone, before Howard got revenge).

Saldivar basically retired the first time because there wasn't really anybody left to offer him a stiff challenge. And his initial retirement lasted about two years, and then he came back and defeated another couple of top-quality Featherweights in Jose Legra and Johnny Famechon (the excellant and technical out-boxer, who lost his title to the comebacking Saldivar).

And I see that you have a question in regards to Saldivar's loss to Shibalta...Well, some descriptions of the fight would tell you that Saldivar appeared to get "old overnight", but ALL detailed descriptions of the fight will you that Saldivar fought most of the fight with a broken cheekbone (suffered in the early rounds). The corner only stopped the fight later on, when the strong and agressive, Shibalta started to take command of the fight and was getting the better of things.

The Jofre loss shouldn't even be discussed (took place about three years after Saldivar had already been labeled as getting "old overnight"), because if you were to also read the descriptions of the fight, you'll find that the differences between a prime Saldivar and the one who fought that night, was like night and day...He was shot!

Yeah, he was still fairly young in years when he was finished, but as one who watched Wilfred Benitez' last fight from the front row in the Winnipeg Convention Centre (against some clubfighter named Scotty Papsadora, who beat on Benitez for the whole time, while Wilfred did nothing but lay on the ropes), it happens all too often a former young phenom's time ends before it logically should have.

But I've seen Saldivar fight a couple of times in his prime, and I'd descibe him as having these qualities; aggressiveness, LOADS of stamina (very high workrate), quickness, great body puncher, powerful left hand from the southpaw stance (as well as a good right hook), strong, tough as hell, and good counterpuncher...That's Saldivar in a nutshell, and I don't think anyone who has seen him would disagree with what qualities he possesed. But let me ask you, Slipx, does that not remind you in some ways of somebody who recently dominated Barrera at Featherweight? And unlike the rather one dimensional, Pacquiao, Saldivar had a multi-dimensional attack...

He may not knock him out, but there's no question in my mind that Vincente Saldivar beats and likely dominates Marco Antonio Barrera (at 126, the precident is obviously there)...No questions at all!

When are some of you guys going to learn that an opinion formed completely from a trip over to BoxRec, well...sucks ****?

[Yogi]

"The 20 Greatest Featherweights of All-Time"

(The Ring's Jan, 2002 issue)

1. Willie Pep
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Sandy Saddler
4. Freddie Miller
5. Kid Chocolate
6. Johnny Kilbane
7. Salvador Sanchez
8. Alexis Arguello
9. Eusibio Pedroza
10. Johnny Dundee
11. Terry McGovern
12. George Dixon
13. Vincente Saldivar
14. Chalky Wright
15. Azumah Nelson
16. Petey Sarron
17. Battling Battalino
18. Jim Driscoll
19. Abe Attell
20. Baby Arizmendi

I don't neccessary agree with the placements on this list (for one, I'd have Attell much higher), but for the most part the names listed are very good. It'll give some of the younger guys some fighters to research, anyways.

I'm also going to find a couple of more Featherweight rankings, which will include one poll by a group of boxing historians, and another one in which I took part in last year.

[Yogi]

Here's the results of a all-time Featherweight poll, which was conducted by Monte Cox (with other partcipants being fellow IBRO members) a while back;

1. Willie Pep
2. Sandy Saddler
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Abe Attell
5. Salvador Sanchez
6. Alexis Arguello
7. George Dixon
8. Terry McGovern
9. Johnny Kilbane
10. Jim Driscoll


And here's the results of a poll that I partcipated in last year, which featured a bunch of guys who have a good historical knowledge of the fight game (although it ended up being a little bit more modern based than the other poll);

1. Willie Pep
2. Sandy Saddler
3. Salvador Sanchez
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Alexis Arguello
6. Eusibio Pedroza
7. Kid Chocolate
8. Vincente Saldivar
9. Terry McGovern
10. Azumah Nelson

Besides some overly exaggerated "latest is greatest" theory believers (most young fans, who haven't seen much, ifany of the older guys), there's obviously not too many people who believe Hamed, Barrera, or Morales, should be ranked amongst the greatest Featherweights in history.

[oldgringo]

Here's the results of a all-time Featherweight poll, which was conducted by Monte Cox (with other partcipants being fellow IBRO members) a while back;

1. Willie Pep
2. Sandy Saddler
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Abe Attell
5. Salvador Sanchez
6. Alexis Arguello
7. George Dixon
8. Terry McGovern
9. Johnny Kilbane
10. Jim Driscoll


And here's the results of a poll that I partcipated in last year, which featured a bunch of guys who have a good historical knowledge of the fight game (although it ended up being a little bit more modern based than the other poll);

1. Willie Pep
2. Sandy Saddler
3. Salvador Sanchez
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Alexis Arguello
6. Eusibio Pedroza
7. Kid Chocolate
8. Vincente Saldivar
9. Terry McGovern
10. Azumah Nelson

Besides some overly exaggerated "latest is greatest" theory believers (most young fans, who haven't seen much, ifany of the older guys), there's obviously not too many people who believe Hamed, Barrera, or Morales, should be ranked amongst the greatest Featherweights in history.

I agree that Morales and Barrera don't belong in the top 5 or 10 at 126. Neither guy cleaned out that division or made an exceptional amount of defenses of their title or anything.

I think Morales does however belong in the top 3-5 at 122. 36-0, with 9 defenses of the WBC title, and wins over Zaragoza, Molina, Jones, McCullough, and Barrera. He also was never legitimately down and is one of the purest most talented boxers that weight has ever seen.

[Yogi]

I agree that Morales and Barrera don't belong in the top 5 or 10 at 126. Neither guy cleaned out that division or made an exceptional amount of defenses of their title or anything.

I think Morales does however belong in the top 3-5 at 122. 36-0, with 9 defenses of the WBC title, and wins over Zaragoza, Molina, Jones, McCullough, and Barrera. He also was never legitimately down and is one of the purest most talented boxers that weight has ever seen.

Gringo, Morales would certainly deserve plenty of consideration for one of the all-time top spots in the Jr. Featherweight division. In fact, with the exception of Wilfredo Gomez, I don't think I'd argue too strongly against him being ranked over any other 122 pounder that has fought since the division's inception.

Barrera is another guy who I'm sure would be quite deserving of a possible top five spot in that division, as well.