Why does Hagler get a pass for never moving up in weight?

[the point giver]

[/B]

schooling tarver was an example of this?

the point giver is an example of giving points to those in need.

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[Doctor_Tenma]

For me it's a non issue. Carlos Monzon was a bigger Middleweight than Hagler. But I don't hold against him that he never moved up and fought Bob Foster. And like Hagler, some of his biggest wins were against fighter's that moved up. Doesn't change his legacy as far as I'm concerned.

Monzon was freaking HUGE

I was watching some of his fights about a week ago and DAMN.

[RimmyDelicious]

Why should anyone?

The weight classes are there for fighters of that particular size to fight in.

He was the best MW of his time, so what if he didn't want to move up?

It is absolutely asking too much of fighters to go out of where they physically belong against fighters who they are at a disadvantage against.

Fighters who are able to eschew weight classes and win despite size differentials are CLEARLY superior to those who cannot. Whether it is because they make the sacrifice to squeeze down or move up, winning at multiple weights separates fighters IMO.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Fighters who are able to eschew weight classes and win despite size differentials are CLEARLY superior to those who cannot. Whether it is because they make the sacrifice to squeeze down or move up, winning at multiple weights separates fighters IMO.

It's insane to think that someone who weighs in at 157 to 158 at MW, should move all the way up to LHW. You have to take Hagler's size into consideration. Disagree with the bold, look at all the weak champions we have today.

[RimmyDelicious]

It's insane to think that someone who weighs in at 157 to 158 at MW, should move all the way up to LHW. You have to take Hagler's size into consideration. Disagree with the bold, look at all the weak champions we have today.

winning despite size is a great barometer of greatness in this sport. it isn't the end all be all, but it separates the Hatton's from the Armstrongs.

[Doctor_Tenma]

winning despite size is a great barometer of greatness in this sport. it isn't the end all be all, but it separates the Hatton's from the Armstrongs.

I'm not saying your wrong, but to me it's all about the level of opposition. Right now we have 2 unknown title holders at WW. I wouldn't think much of Hatton or any of the top Jr WWs if they beat those 2.

[poeticlsykuac]

IMO It is a lot harder to hold on and own a division than it is to go up and win a belt IE Pacman. Diaz, Hatton, and Cotto weren't the champs of the division, yet he got love as the number one of every division.

If Pacman stuck around 130 example.
Valero
Baby Bull
Guzman
Soto
Juarez

All examples of good fighters that would have given him problems at lower weights, though those are spread through 2 weight classes.

If Mosley stuck around at 135:
PBF
Corrales
Castillo
Casemayor

If DLH stuck around at 130-135:
He would have had all the same fighters as Mosley.

Seriously some of these would have been real classics.

The most recent fighter of the lower weight classes to not move up and own a division was KT. Hopkins was another.

I seriously think that a lot of people don't realize how much harder it is to stay disciplined and in shape and not move up in weight. Owning a division for a long period of time is insane. Cleaning out a division is far more impressive to me than anything Pacman ever did(moving all over to me means nothing if you have never beat "The Champ" of the division. PBF did it at both 130 and 135, after that he was a cherry picking king.

[Calilloyd]

I'm not saying your wrong, but to me it's all about the level of opposition. Right now we have 2 unknown title holders at WW. I wouldn't think much of Hatton or any of the top Jr WWs if they beat those 2.

Exactly. Hagler beating Hearns,Hamsho, or Bennie Brisco is a lot more impressive than a 140 pound champion beating the weakest belt holder at 147.Or more recent Cotto beating Yuri Foreman.

[check hook]

Almost all the great fighters outside of the heavyweight division have moved up the scale to test themselves at one point or another. I know the excuse will be he was waiting on Leonard and Hearns to come up to 16olbs to make big money fights, that's fine, but they weren't gonna test him physically.

He could've fought Spinks, Qawi, Saad Muhammad. Mustafa Muhammad, or any of the top rated lightheavys of his time, but he just feasted on the 160lbs division and never challenged himself. Guys who move up multiple weight classes and eventually lose to naturally bigger men as a result get criticized harshly, but shouldn't they be given credit for testing their physical limits? Hagler as great as he was didn't risk himself.

Roy Jones couldv'e starved himself and feasted on the middleweight division for over 20 years, but he went above and beyond and eventually annihilated a solid heavyweight. Even Hopkins is testing himself now at higher weights.

Roy Jones(154-Heavyweight), Leonard(147-168), Hearns,(147-190) Pacquiao,(106-147) Mayweather(130-154) Hopkins(175-160-175) James Toney(160-heavyweight) Sugar Ray Robinson(147-175) Duran(135-168) MARVIN HAGLER (160)

Fans need to give more credit to the men who beat naturally bigger fighters.

So you view not having moved up as a "blight" on a fighters career? Being dominant at different classes is not a pre-requisite to achieve greatness. As far as MW goes MMH was a small MW. Irregardless he ruled his division with an iron fist for the better part of a decade. Him not having to move up as he aged is testament to hiw work ethic and being in shape on a consistent basis.