Why i believe Pac is on PED's.

[IMDAZED]

Manny and duck don't go together actually. He's been known to up the ante everytime he fights.....that's the reason why he is being accused of steroids.

Guess who's contemplating on retiring?.....for 1 or 2 years....lol....meaning he's planning of coming back? Like when? When the threat is over?

Manny and duck? No. Manny and PEDs? To quote Sean Carter, "yup!"

[V.WEBB]

Yea! And Manny gets weakened by blood so Boy keeps asking for OST! He's a certified duck!

"Boy"...hilarious. None of it makes sense, but man, its funny.

[IMDAZED]

So you're comparing Calzaghe moving up one division to Pacaquio moving up three divisions? Interesting.

I didn't even find it worthy of a response.

[tyson]

Firstly this is not a thread intended to incite a ***** v ******* war. I am simply giving my opinion on the matter and putting it on the record so ppl know where i stand. I would appreciate some intelligent responses and/or rebuttals (i'm asking alot i know).


IMO....and it's not a popular one on here, i believe Pac is using EPO and HGH....or some combination of PED's. Their are various reasons why i believe this. Manny before moving to 135 had some wars with Morales, JMM and in his last few outings at that weight against various guys the wear and tear was starting to show.....and alot of guys (Jim Lampley being one) pointed this out......they thought his career was widing down....we are talking about a guy with 45+ fights who has been in ring wars.

Now Pac from early 2008 to the end of 2009 went from being a 130 pounder to a welterweight. This is a very short period of time. He did this whilst maintaining his speed and increasing his power, stamina and punch resistance. This is very very unusual for a fighter moving up multiple weight divisions over a long period of time.........but in this short a time frame it is damn near impossible. Before moving up one would say Pac had very good power. However i am suspect as to how a boxer who fought a fight at 130 pounds in March of 2008 and did not have devastating one punch KO power can seriously hurt natural welters who rehydrate to 160 plus with a single punch and how he can also consistently take multiple punches from them. Remember this is a guy who was rocked by JMM and Morales etc at 130 and he was hitting JMM alot and despite the KD's wasn't as powerful or as effective as he was against say Hatton and Cotto.

Although what you say here is true, you're leaving out a few factors.

Pacman's balance and punching technique has greatly improved under Roach's guidance. The secret to Pacman's power lies in leverage and speed, which he has more or less kept going up through the weight classes.
Remember that the formula for power is mass x acceleration. Keeping the same speed while increasing mass (weight), will increase your punching power. Gaining weight will also increase the body's ability to sustain/absorb punishment.
Strengthening your neck and shoulder area will increase your ability to absorb a blow on the physical level. I believe that a great deal of one's ability to absorb punches is mental, that you decide to not allow yourself to get knocked out.
At least that's what George Chuvalo said, and he should know

Another factor has more to do with a lack of weight draining than use of drugs when it comes to the "resurgence" of Pacquiao's physicality, I think.
Being 1% water drained equals to about 10% reduction in physical endurance and performance...
Which again is why Cotto looked dead slow and very vulnerable against Pacman.

It may surprise people to learn Pac has a KO% of 68%. As a comparison Floyd Mayweather has a KO% of about 60% and SSM has about 74%. So we know he is a very good puncher, but this number hardly tells us that he could move from 130 to 147 in a little under 2 years and hurt naturally bigger men more than he was able to hurt 130 punders and below. Power may increase overall as you move up, but relative to the weight class you are in it tends to have less effect on the bigger men as you move up.

Floyd Mayweather as a comparison has been a welterweight for 5+ years and only recently has his body grown into the weight, after a stay at 135 that lasted 4 fights and 140 that lasted 3 fights.....in essence he has moved up slowly and gradually. He has slowed down considerably and his relative power has decreased....he isn't hurting or KOing bigger guys as easily as he did qith guys at 30, 35 or even 40. This is expected. He has also taken less wear and tear than Pac has. Pac grew into a ripped and full fledged welter from 130 pounds after only one fight at 135.......one......he also had a single fight at 140. So a guy who was in drag them out wars at 130 with the likes of JMM, Morales etc and who was looking worse for wear and had a hard time with Larios at 130 goes all the way up from 130 to 147 in under 2 years and is faster, stronger, hits harder and has increased punch resistance than he ever had?????

I don't think Floyd has slowed down considerably due to going up. I think he has changed his style to suit the slower, more powerful foes he's facing, as well as a reflection of the change in personality as he grows older. More safety-minded, more calculated and clinical, but no less effective due to his extraordinarily good timing- which has always been his "key", coupled with his great vision.

I don't think Pac has been tested enough as a welterweight to declare his chin or power to be better or worse. Some of his welterweight opponents were weightdrained as hell (Oscar and Cotto) and one just refused to hit him.

Floyd would test those areas, and I think Floyd would be too strong and too accurate for Pacquiao.

Now i could believe all of this............however this is a man who has rejected something as trivial and simple (and yes it is trivial and simple) as random OST to make the biggest fight in history happen and to also earn his biggest payday ever. After the news that OST was the impediment to this fight happening his team were one of the most incohenrent and incohesive units you could witness.......can you say panic anyone??? There was a bunch of lame and downright silly excuses given as to why nOST was a problem...these include:


- superstition
- Pac is afraid of needles
- Blood draining (weakens him)
- Floyd being bigger than Pac is a disadvantage if blood is drawn.
- Floyd is not the commission
- Drawing blood can cause injury

Those reasons are ******, indeed.
I think Pacman isn't very very interested in fighting Floyd. More so than I think he is juicing.

And let me just add further....if this was anyone else but Manny Pacquaio the media would be savaging this person......but for whatever reason everyone in the boxing media is a bit intoxicated with Pac right now, and i suspect that the fact these accusations came from Floyd Mayweather Jr don't help, given the media and boxing establishment can't handle a loud mouthed ****y black guy who calls his own shots.


On a final note the media and many fans may be siding with Pac right now, but 10 years from now when OST is the norm for all championship fights poeple are going to start to wonder why Pac was making such a fuss over something so simple.....and i believe if the fight doesn't happen as time goes on Floyd Mayweather Jr's legacy will be recognised as being greater than that of Manny Pacquaio's.

Perhaps you are right. Maybe the public is being kind because it's the pacman. It's certainly a factor that the demands comes from Floyd, which every single reasonable human being just cannot stand outside the ring.

The way I see it, there are two possibilities here;

Either Pacman is roiding, or he is very special. We can easily find out, but Pac is refusing.

I think it might be one out of two reasons;
Either Pac doesn't really wanna fight floyd.

Or he is jucing...

[Marcov]

This is a last ditch attempt to distract us from the fact that Mayweather is running from Pacquiao. The TS has rode this angle for months but now, even after the story was exposed and the truth of why the Mayweather's created these rumors in the first place is revealed, the TS holds on to it as a last hope.

[IMDAZED]

Why are people acting as if Manny began working with Roach when he moved to 135?

Didn't we hear all this bull**** about how he was no longer a one-handed fighter, how much he greatly improved before he fought Marquez a second time?

[Calilloyd]

I didn't even find it worthy of a response.

LOL it really wasn't. I just couldn't believe he would put that out there as if he was making a legitimate point. Actually I haven't seen even one good response in opposition to what the thread starter said. "Floyd's scared" "Manny is so good" doesn't refute anything. But that's the typical knee jerk, ignorant response, that they can come up with. They're not smart enough to come up with anything else.

[tyson]

Why are people acting as if Manny began working with Roach when he moved to 135?

Didn't we hear all this bull**** about how he was no longer a one-handed fighter, how much he greatly improved before he fought Marquez a second time?

It takes a long time to change/modify any fighter's style and reduce his weaknesses.
Pacquiao has improved consistently since Roach took over.

Pacquiao fought a **** fight against JMM, and he will probably always fight a **** fight against good counter-punchers. Mostly because I don't think Pac is the smartest fighter.

[IMDAZED]

It takes a long time to change/modify any fighter's style and reduce his weaknesses.
Pacquiao has improved consistently since Roach took over.

Pacquiao fought a **** fight against JMM, and he will probably always fight a **** fight against good counter-punchers. Mostly because I don't think Pac is the smartest fighter.

When did you first notice this marked improvement?

[KnockoutKings]

From the Barerra Fight until the Clottey fight, he only KO one guy, Hatton, who Floyd already softed up. Is it really out of this world that he got stoppage wins over David Diaz, a old and already shot De La Hoya, and a damaged Cotto? Manny gets discredited for fighting bums and shot fighters, but he needs steroids to beat them? Really? I thought those guys were walking corpse and tailor made for Manny? What happened?