Comments Thread For: Buffalo Soldiered: Bumphus, Mancini, a big night for upsets

[BIGPOPPAPUMP]

By Lyle Fitzsimmons - It was our first fight… and the end of two eras.

When old pal Phil MacDonald and I hopped in my dad’s Chevy Caprice for a trip from hometown Niagara Falls to the Memorial Auditorium in Buffalo 26 years ago tonight, the consensus around town leaned more toward prolonged reigns than title-shifting storms.

The city’s first major boxing show in decades was intended as a dual showcase for high-profile incumbents and TV staples Johnny Bumphus and Ray Mancini – “Bump City” and “Boom Boom” – against less-accomplished suitors Gene Hatcher and Livingstone Bramble.

Hatcher and Bramble were just recognizable enough for cameos on ESPN and entertaining bluster at mid-week press conferences, but neither had measured up in the ring to a be***eled pair that entered with 51 wins and four title defenses in 52 fights.

Hatcher’s biggest pre-Bumphus moments had arguably been a pair of losses – to eventual lightweight title challenger Tyrone Crawley in Atlantic City and longtime 130-pound champion Alfredo Escalera at Madison Square Garden – while Bramble, though he’d lost just once in 22 fights, had beaten little better than the Kenny Bogners and Rafael Williamses of the world. [Click Here To Read More]

[antrob]

I wonder how much the IBO pay Lyle to hype up their "title". I just check their website and their rankings are garbage. Lovemore Ndou is their welterweight champion, peter manfredo is their middleweight champion and leonardo sappavigna is their lightweight champion. And don't get me started on their computer rankings. For every one thing they do right there is 10 more things that they do wrong.If you don't believe just check them out for your self. I firmly believe that Lyle's writing integrity has been compromise because only someone on their payroll will keep hyping the IBO.

[SluggerFan]

Livingstone (Ras-I) Bramble was better than his record...

I always liked Livingstone Bramble. I had seen him fight on ESPN after the Mancini fight and he always put on a good show. Also, he was always better than his record. Case and point was his fight with Oba Carr. I don't know if anyone remembers this but ESPN and Emanuel Steward let the ESPN viewers pick Oba's next opponent, which there choices were two okay guys and Bramble. The viewers overwhelmingly picked Bramble and what a fight it was...

ESPN had built up Oba Carr as a young fighter, saying the reason he became a fighter was someone stole his bike when he was a kid. They had this huge build-up on him and Livingstone was cast as the opponent. All that changed in the first round, where Bramble dumped Oba Carr on his ass twice and had him out on his feet at round's end. What ensued from there was a war for five rounds with the fifth being awesome. Bramble had rocked Carr again in the fifth and was going for the kill when he got nailed, and Bramble tried to mock Carr and then realized his legs went rubbery and did a Zab Judah dance without going down in the round. The next five rounds saw Oba backing up and trying to outbox Bramble while Bramble moved forward trying to batter Carr. When the fight ended, Oba Carr came out the winner but still to this day, I thought Bramble won and should have got the decision. But I will tell you, the real winner were the fans. We got to pick the opponent and got a killer fight. Too bad we don't have these types of things happen anymore but that one was one hell of a fight...

[fitzbitz]

Settle down with the accusations, Antrob. What I wrote is pretty simple. The IBO added a prominent champion in Darchinyan, who, even though he may not be the best bantam in the world, is surely the most reognizable. As I said, that point would be hard to argue. Additionally, point out one other word in that note - just one - that's inaccurate. Dawson is indeed an IBO-only world champion and is considered the world's best at 175. Pacquiao was an IBO-only champion at 140 and was considered the world's best at that weight after beating Hatton.

Wlad Klitschko is an IBO champion and has spoken glowingly of the organzation. As you're clearly aware, I'm also an IBO supporter. Not because of payroll, but because I believe they do things the right way. You mentioned their ratings. I suggest you check them a little more closely. And then tell me the WBA or IBF or whatever other ratings are any better in terms of the ranking of the contenders. The champions will evolve as their guys get better fights. But from 1-100, their rankings exceed anyone's.

But perhaps you prefer organizations where guys like Jan Zaveck are considered welterweight champions or where Billy Lyell or Bobby Gunn are passed off as Top 15 contenders in their classes. The IBO doesn't do that. It may indeed have a No. 50 guy fighting for a title out of necessity, but at least they admit that it's a No. 50 guy. He's not No. 50 one day and then, presto... No. 15 the next and suddenly worthy of a title shot. Not to mention interim champions, diamond champions, champions emeritus and all the rest. If you prefer that garbage, feel free to stay with the flock of sheep. But keep your silly conspiracy theories to yourself.

[PRBOXINGCOTTO]

I dont think cotto will win by dec but by ko by the 8th round i cant wait for sat i will be there i was at the clottey fight n the fight was at a magnetude u cannot explain i will never forget it

[antrob]

Settle down with the accusations, Antrob. What I wrote is pretty simple. The IBO added a prominent champion in Darchinyan, who, even though he may not be the best bantam in the world, is surely the most reognizable. As I said, that point would be hard to argue. Additionally, point out one other word in that note - just one - that's inaccurate. Dawson is indeed an IBO-only world champion and is considered the world's best at 175. Pacquiao was an IBO-only champion at 140 and was considered the world's best at that weight after beating Hatton.

Wlad Klitschko is an IBO champion and has spoken glowingly of the organzation. As you're clearly aware, I'm also an IBO supporter. Not because of payroll, but because I believe they do things the right way. You mentioned their ratings. I suggest you check them a little more closely. And then tell me the WBA or IBF or whatever other ratings are any better in terms of the ranking of the contenders. The champions will evolve as their guys get better fights. But from 1-100, their rankings exceed anyone's.

But perhaps you prefer organizations where guys like Jan are considered welterweight champions or where Billy Lyell or Bobby Gunn are passed off as Top 15 contenders in their classes. The IBO doesn't do that. It may indeed have a No. 50 guy fighting for a title out of necessity, but at least they admit that it's a No. 50 guy. He's not No. 50 one day and then, presto... No. 15 the next and suddenly worthy of a title shot. Not to mention interim champions, diamond champions, champions emeritus and all the rest. If you prefer that garbage, feel free to stay with the flock of sheep. But keep your silly conspiracy theories to yourself.

First off I don't prefere any ABC orginzation over the other, in fact i'm through with all of them. I stop paying attention to these water down titles a long time ago.

You mentioned that the IBO has Wlad Klitschko and Chad Dawson as champions in their weightclass. That's all good but name another champion that they recognized that is a deserving champion. You can't. Also another organization did recognize Manny Pacquiao as their jr welterweight champion it was Ring Magazine.

How in the same post that you make fun of the IBF for having Jan Zaveck as their welterweight champion you support an organization that has Lovemore Ndou as their welterweight champion?

Another thing, i'm not going to give the IBO props because they admit that they let their No. 50 contender fight for a title out of necessity. In fact that make's them no better than any of the other ABC that let undeserving challenger fight for a title that don't deserve all for the purpose of collecting a fee.

[fitzbitz]

Ring Magazine is such a wonderful theory... but it fails miserably in practice. Let me ask you this. Let's say Fighter X is the Ring's champion at XYZ pounds. And after winning the prestigious honor from Oscar De La Hoya's favorite magazine, let's say he decides, "OK, I'm making every defense here on out against the No. 23 ranked contender. No one any higher." Tell me then, sir, what exactly will Ring do about it? The answer, according to their own rules? Nothing. A champion can only lose his title in three cases, when he retires, when he loses or when he moves to another weight class. So, as I wrote in a column a few months back, a champion of the Ring is just like a Supreme Court justice if he so chooses... a champion for life.

Exactly how does that make things better? Sure, in an era when sanctioning body loathing is at an all-time high, the magazine seems a worthy outlet. And I don't question their good intentions. But in spite of the hatred, a sanctioning body is a necessary evil. There have to be rules. There has to be structure. Ring provides none. And because the WBA, WBC, WBO and IBF have proven incapable of the necessary task of leading the sport out of its quagmires, I favor the IBO. True, their champions are weak in some case. I don't argue that. But so were many of the other bodies' title-holders until they got big fights.

Before he beat Jeff Lacy, Joe Calzaghe was a non-entity from the UK who beat a bunch of guys as WBO champion that no one had heard of. Once he got big fights and won them, the WBO title became significant in that class and more significant in others. It wasn't all that long ago that Herbie Hide was the WBO heavyweight champion... now it's Wlad Klitschko. Akhmed Kotiev was its welterweight champion in 1999... 10 years later it became Manny Pacquiao. So, these things do change over time if given the chance.

And on all the other things, I believe the IBO does it right. Yes, they have a No. 35 or 50 guy fighting for a title occasionally, but my point was exactly that. They'll admit he's a No. 50 contender going in. He won't be No. 50 one day and then No. 12 the next... suddenly "earning" a title shot magically overnight. Same thing for interim champions and diamond champions and all the others I mentioned before. The other bodies revel in them. The IBO ignores them.

True, Dawson and Klitschko and Darchinyan in some weight classes don't completely make up for the N'dous and the Zappavingas in others, but it's a work in progress. And as long as they continue to do things in an above-board manner and disavow all the other nonsense that has dragged the other groups down, they'll have my support. Evolution eventually worked for the WBO most recently and the IBF before it in the 1980s. It's my contention - and my hope - that it'll work for the IBO as well. That doesn't make me an employee. It simply makes me a guy who believes in what they're saying.