If Pavlik could make 168/175 comfortably who would he give more problems Bute/Dawson?

[Tiozzo]

I wouldn't even consider Pavlik a pressure fighter...sure he comes forward at times, but when you're picking him off he's stationairy....basically asking to be hit...


I woudn't think he could beat either because Bute and Dawson would be better boxers...but in choosing one I would say he would give Bute more problems...

Dawson would be too much for him...

co-sign
Pavlik is not even a pressure fighter to begin with
Andrade is one, Pavlik is not
a good pressure fighter will cut off the ring. pursue you and throw punches at you no matter what you do, no matter how you move
Pavlik doesn't do that
it makes the thread even more irrelevant

[goldenglove2]

Who do you think? Lets see, a few years ago Bute had a tough first fight against Andrade where the pressure got to him and he was seriously hurt in the 12th round. Dawson a few years ago fought Johnson(younger fresher version) and had problems at times with Johnson's pressure. Now recently Dawson has been fighting older fighters who have been in wars like Johnson and Tarver... So we really don't know how all that good Dawson really is. But you can also kind of say the same about Bute, where recently he was fighting fighters who were war-torn even if they are younger such as Andrade, Zuniga, and Miranda.

They both beat him..He may be able to hurt Bute though..,,

[SoldierWarrior]

co-sign
Pavlik is not even a pressure fighter to begin with
Andrade is one, Pavlik is not
a good pressure fighter will cut off the ring. pursue you and throw punches at you no matter what you do, no matter how you move
Pavlik doesn't do that
it makes the thread even more irrelevant

Pavlik wasn't cutting off the ring 5-8 against Martinez?

Then what do you call that? Do you think Pavlik was outboxing Martinez for those rounds?

[Tiozzo]

You don't think age caught up with Glen Johnson and fights caught up with Johnson in the rematch? Also, you don't think the wars Andrade has been in caught up with him in the Bute rematch at all? It was all Dawson and Butes skills winning their rematches?

Andrade hasn't been in wars. Try to name one. Getting spanked by Kessler, this isn't a war. And he's still young. Between the rematch and the first fight, he has only had an easy fight with Stieglitz. So no, Andrade didn't get old or something like that.

As for GJ, maybe age caught up with him between the 2 rematches since there has been a long time between the 2 fights, BUT, when you look at what he just did to Yusaf Mack, he didn't get all that old.......

So yes, in the end, I think both Bute and Dawson making the necessary adjustments is what really got them the Wins.

[Tiozzo]

Pavlik wasn't cutting off the ring 5-8 against Martinez?

Then what do you call that? Do you think Pavlik was outboxing Martinez for those rounds?

as I said, cutting off the ring is not enough to be called a pressure fighter

a pressure fighter cuts the ring, throws punches non-stop, no matter what the opponent does, he runs to his opponent, much like Andrade and Angulo do

Pavlik cutting off the ring alone doesn't make him a pressure fighter, because he doesn't have the other mentionned habits

[SoldierWarrior]

as I said, cutting off the ring is not enough to be called a pressure fighter

a pressure fighter cuts the ring, throws punches non-stop, no matter what the opponent does, he runs to his opponent, much like Andrade and Angulo do

Pavlik cutting off the ring alone doesn't make him a pressure fighter, because he doesn't have the other mentionned habits

You think Andrade is better than Pavlik? Or at certain things like cutting of the ring, or entirely?

[Calilloyd]

Who do you think? Lets see, a few years ago Bute had a tough first fight against Andrade where the pressure got to him and he was seriously hurt in the 12th round. Dawson a few years ago fought Johnson(younger fresher version) and had problems at times with Johnson's pressure. Now recently Dawson has been fighting older fighters who have been in wars like Johnson and Tarver... So we really don't know how all that good Dawson really is. But you can also kind of say the same about Bute, where recently he was fighting fighters who were war-torn even if they are younger such as Andrade, Zuniga, and Miranda.

Dawson would beat the hell out of Pavlik. And Bute would beat Pavlik also. People are going to see just how overrated Pavlik really is.

[Calilloyd]

How can it be neither if both in the past have shown weaknesses toward pressure fighters? Dawson did not look that good against Glen Johnson in there first fight, it took like 2 years for a rematch to finally happen against an older Johnson. And with Bute, he was outboxing Andrade but looked like total **** and kind of out on his feet in the 12th round. It took Butes strong heart to get back up. I think one of these fighters is revisiting a place they do not want to revisit.

The "he had trouble with this guy" doesn't work here. Especially when I can just as easily say Pavlik was humiliated by a 43 year old Hopkins.

[Tiozzo]

You think Andrade is better than Pavlik? Or at certain things like cutting of the ring, or entirely?

I haven't got into the who's better discussion, I have only said Pavlik is not a pressure fighter, and Andrade is. So even if it were true that Dawson and Bute have trouble with pressure fighters, they would have no problem handling Pavlik, cause he's no pressure fighter.

The movement and boxing of a 43 years old with poor stamina wouldn't have been enough to keep a real pressure fighter off of him, and guess what, the little Hopkins did was enough to off-set Pavlik's offense. At this point in his career, a man like Andrade would TKO Hopkins.

[Toney Loc]

Pavlik gets DESTROYED by both but I think he gives Bute more problems than he would Dawson because Bute is slower than Dawson and tends to get hit a bit in the first couple of rounds.