PED's - EPO

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  • sunny31
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    #1

    PED's - EPO

    Hi guys, was speaking to a doctor friend last night, who happened to know some stuff on performance enhancing drugs, in particular epo as some of you may know is used to treat certain kidney related and diabetic illnesses. He said that a long term user of epo often the dosage gets smaller over time and it is easy to maintain a higher than average red blood cell count. He basically said that when an athlete for example first starts they would probably take 3 vials a week or something along those lines, and those red blood cells eventually leave your system after 4 months but the drug in actual fact leaves your system pretty much after 7 days it cannot be detected. But after those 4 months you generally reduce the number of vials to probably 1 a week or every couple of weeks and get the desired result.

    Forgive any mistakes that I have made but I have no technical knowledge on the subject area and am just remembering the main points this person talked about. So I told him you know I am a big boxng fan and explained the whole manny v floyd thing, and he said that hypothetically manny wouln't be starting from ground zero as his red blood count would already be above normal and that he could take the drug before he even started training and the desired effect will be there. He said the only way for the drug testing to be effective for epo would be for it to be implemented over the course of AT LEAST 6 months-1 year. As after a couple of weeks the increased red blood cells start blending in with the others, or something like that.

    Now I have no definitive opinion on manny on ped's either way, im really not sure but I just thought this was interesting for a couple of reasons, 1. that the ost for this fight testing for epo would be very easy to beat if the fighters were using it, 2. the cut-off whatever it may be would have no bearing on the fighters being able to get the benefits of epo as it normally takes 4 weeks to see maximum effects.
  • sunny31
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    #2
    I would like to reiterate that I have no agenda here, in fact I am a much bigger manny fan then floyd. I would like to think he is clean but it shows that even olympic style drug testing is far from efficient unless it is applied regularly over long periods of time and not in intervals. This is not true for all drugs but most of them

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    • PH|L
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      #3
      well that pretty much suggests that Pac's demand for a cutoff date is in fact because he doesn't want the blood testing to affect him negatively, rather than wanting to juice up in the 2-3 weeks leading up to the fight.

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      • roughred
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        #4
        yeah come on. roach and manny are two of the good guys of boxing
        imagine that people are listening to the rants of floyd mayweather snr
        a convicted drug dealer

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        • sunny31
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          #5
          Originally posted by PH|L
          well that pretty much suggests that Pac's demand for a cutoff date is in fact because he doesn't want the blood testing to affect him negatively, rather than wanting to juice up in the 2-3 weeks leading up to the fight.
          Id like to think so...the request for a cut-off would no way no how effect or benefit any fighter using epo, and as far as my friend is concerned that is the same for some of the other more complex ped's.

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          • sunny31
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            #6
            Originally posted by roughred
            yeah come on. roach and manny are two of the good guys of boxing
            imagine that people are listening to the rants of floyd mayweather snr
            a convicted drug dealer
            There is just too much opinion and not enough fact flying around, I thought I would try and share some producive knowledge on the subject cos I think there is a lot of confusion

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            • fightfan_79
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              #7
              Good info.....also very interesting to see the "war" has not infected this thread.....

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              • And Still
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                #8
                Originally posted by roughred
                yeah come on. roach and manny are two of the good guys of boxing
                imagine that people are listening to the rants of floyd mayweather snr
                a convicted drug dealer
                manny Pacquiao's father is a deadbeat dad who abandoned the family in desperate poverty.

                What's your point?

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                • Eric Holder
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by sunny31
                  Hi guys, was speaking to a doctor friend last night, who happened to know some stuff on performance enhancing drugs, in particular epo as some of you may know is used to treat certain kidney related and diabetic illnesses. He said that a long term user of epo often the dosage gets smaller over time and it is easy to maintain a higher than average red blood cell count. He basically said that when an athlete for example first starts they would probably take 3 vials a week or something along those lines, and those red blood cells eventually leave your system after 4 months but the drug in actual fact leaves your system pretty much after 7 days it cannot be detected. But after those 4 months you generally reduce the number of vials to probably 1 a week or every couple of weeks and get the desired result.

                  Forgive any mistakes that I have made but I have no technical knowledge on the subject area and am just remembering the main points this person talked about. So I told him you know I am a big boxng fan and explained the whole manny v floyd thing, and he said that hypothetically manny wouln't be starting from ground zero as his red blood count would already be above normal and that he could take the drug before he even started training and the desired effect will be there. He said the only way for the drug testing to be effective for epo would be for it to be implemented over the course of AT LEAST 6 months-1 year. As after a couple of weeks the increased red blood cells start blending in with the others, or something like that.

                  Now I have no definitive opinion on manny on ped's either way, im really not sure but I just thought this was interesting for a couple of reasons, 1. that the ost for this fight testing for epo would be very easy to beat if the fighters were using it, 2. the cut-off whatever it may be would have no bearing on the fighters being able to get the benefits of epo as it normally takes 4 weeks to see maximum effects.
                  intresting read thanks

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                  • And Still
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                    #10
                    Originally posted by roughred
                    yeah come on. roach and manny are two of the good guys of boxing
                    imagine that people are listening to the rants of floyd mayweather snr
                    a convicted drug dealer
                    Roach knows of two of his fighters who tested positive for PEDs

                    Posted Mar. 12, 2010 at 11:06am

                    By Michael Rosenthal

                    Buzz up!
                    DALLAS – Freddie Roach, the trainer of Manny Pacquiao, said he has worked with two fighters who tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs but takes precautions so it won’t creep into his gym in Hollywood, Calif.

                    Roach said one of his former fighters, Justin Fortune, was known to have used PEDs and James Toney twice tested positive for steroids, once when he was working with Roach.

                    “I won’t say I didn’t know,” said Roach, referring to Toney. “I never asked him, though. I never had a conversation. I could see his body structure had signs, his traps and stuff. He was either lifting a lot of weight or he was on (something).

                    “… I think I had one other fighter on steroids also, Justin Fortune. … I know he’d been there before.”

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