FAO: PED experts.

[flour]

To answer your other question Micrea (also CERA) is actually third generation EPO. It can be administered once a fortnight, and some say once a month (much less than first and third gen EPO)...it is used to treat leukemia and other blood disorders....though i'm not sure how good it would be at avoiding tests.

My real point is does the NSAC even test for Micrea?? or even other EPO's???
I highly doubt it. SSM injected EPO, took the clear (THG), used the clear and modanofil....this is fact......this was revealed in grand jury testimony by Shane and Vic Conte.

Now granted THG "was" undetectable at the time....but why didn't the NSAC or other commissions get Shane on the EPO or Modanofil??? The media over their are useless. With about 5 seconds worth of digging you would prob find the NSAC only gets it's samples tested for the stock standard anaolics, because of the cost of testing.....again i'm just speculating....but we know their testing procedures are a joke. Victor Conte confirms that, Dr Don Caitlin confirms that and former NSAC Medical Board Advisory Cahirman Dr Margaret Goodman confirms that.

a floyd fan who talks facts without some ******ed mental gymnastic ..respect

but here's the thing, the unlimited urine testing agreement was proposed along with the idea that USADA can test them

[Benny Leonard]

Steroid detection time:

http://www.steroid.com/detect.php

TESTOSTERONE SUSPENSION = 1-3 DAYS DETECTION TIME




Here is a little article:

Another injectable testosterone compound which is used in power sports circles is Testosterone suspension. In the following we will describe the testerone dissolved in water. For athletes who readily and frequently work with the popular oily testosterone suspensions (Sustanon 250 or Testosterone Depot) this information might be something new. Besides, water-dissolved tes-tosterone was actually the first injectable steroid. In Europe during the 1940's injectable testosterone was used in the German armed forces to increase aggressiveness and stamina, and also in the recov-ery of undernourished prisoners of war. This was nothing else but crystalline testosterone mixed with water. Russian weightlifters be-gan experimenting with this testosterone compound during the late 1 940's and broke one world record after another. Since, at the time, pure testosterone without additional esters was used, the substance remained in the body for only a few hours requiring daily injec-tions, and often several per day By first injecting the testosterone molecules with an ester, such as for example isobutyrate (in Agovirin), it was possible to prolong the duration of effect up to about one week.

Since testosterone is dissolved in water the substance reaches the blood after only 1-2 hours so that it is unnecessary to wait longer for results, a circumstance that is advantageous to powerlifters. In the last one or two weeks before a competition testosterone suspen-sion is injected daily, often resulting in amazing strength gains. Of-ten Testo -suspension is even injected on the day of competition to increase the athlete's aggressiveness and self-esteem in order to ap-proach the difficult tasks with the right attitude. For this purpose, this rapidly effective testosterone is considerably more effective than methyltestosterone (see chapter "Methyltestosterone"). Among East European powerlifters and competing bodybuilders Testo-suspen-sion has always been a "last minute secret." Especially women can reliably change their estrogen/testosterone ratio to break down excessive water and to give softer muscles a visibly better hard-ness in a short time. Female bodybuilders usually have consider-ably greater difficulty in getting their calves and upper thighs in contest condition than their upper bodies. Often you see a female bodybuilder on the posing platform with striated pecs, delts and triceps, whereas her lower body appears flat and soft. For several reasons the estrogen level can be too high, leading to an increase in the hormone aldosterone. Since aldosterone regulates the body's own water household-meaning the higher the aldosterone level, the more water is stored by the organism-it is important to keep the aldosterone level as low as possible. Finally it is known that women by nature store fat and water mostly in their upper thighs. An optimal form for a competition requires a high an-drogen level with a minimal estrogen level. Women who on the day of competition never obtain the right muscle hardness can usually achieve a significant performance enhancement by in-jecting 25-50 mg Testosterone suspension daily during the last 1-4 days before the competition.

However, men also use Testosterone suspension during the last 10-14 days before a bodybuilding competition to make an all-out effort for optimal muscle hardness. Athletes report outstand-ing results when Testo -suspension is used together with the car-bohydrate/loading technique. The athlete unloads his body by depriving it of carbohydrates for several days and begins loading carbohydrates three days before a competition with the goal of storing as much glycogen in the muscle cells as possible. He can optimize this process by taking 5 0-100 mg Testosterone suspen-sion/day. Testosterone suspension considerably boosts the stor-ing of glycogen in the muscle cells and, since dissolved in water, becomes effective almost immediately. As is known, glycogen also bonds with water in the muscle cells, which manifests itself in extremely tight and full muscles.

In the mass-gaining phase Testosterone suspension is only rarely used. With respect to strength and muscle mass the gains, as with all injectable testosterone esters, are very good; however, this testosterone compound requires frequent injections in order to reach a performance-enhancing dosage. With 100 mg every 1-2 days rapid muscle gains can usually be obtained and the strength increase can usually be felt from the first day. However a stale effect remains since the injection of testosterone dissolved in water is not only extremely unpleasant but the pain at the injection area remains for some time. To endure such martyrdom for several weeks is not to everyone's liking. The gains disappear rapidly after use of the compound is discontinued.

http://www.domesticgear.com/testosteronesuspension.html

http://www.steroid.com/Testosterone-Suspension.php

[pasawayako]

Ped experts here in BS=pacquiao haters/Experts in downgrading pacquiao's accomplishments/jealous that their favorite idol was overshadowed by pac. True story.

[flour]

Steroid detection time:

http://www.steroid.com/detect.php

TESTOSTERONE SUSPENSION = 1-3 DAYS DETECTION TIME




Here is a little article:

Another injectable testosterone compound which is used in power sports circles is Testosterone suspension. In the following we will describe the testerone dissolved in water. For athletes who readily and frequently work with the popular oily testosterone suspensions (Sustanon 250 or Testosterone Depot) this information might be something new. Besides, water-dissolved tes-tosterone was actually the first injectable steroid. In Europe during the 1940's injectable testosterone was used in the German armed forces to increase aggressiveness and stamina, and also in the recov-ery of undernourished prisoners of war. This was nothing else but crystalline testosterone mixed with water. Russian weightlifters be-gan experimenting with this testosterone compound during the late 1 940's and broke one world record after another. Since, at the time, pure testosterone without additional esters was used, the substance remained in the body for only a few hours requiring daily injec-tions, and often several per day By first injecting the testosterone molecules with an ester, such as for example isobutyrate (in Agovirin), it was possible to prolong the duration of effect up to about one week.

Since testosterone is dissolved in water the substance reaches the blood after only 1-2 hours so that it is unnecessary to wait longer for results, a circumstance that is advantageous to powerlifters. In the last one or two weeks before a competition testosterone suspen-sion is injected daily, often resulting in amazing strength gains. Of-ten Testo -suspension is even injected on the day of competition to increase the athlete's aggressiveness and self-esteem in order to ap-proach the difficult tasks with the right attitude. For this purpose, this rapidly effective testosterone is considerably more effective than methyltestosterone (see chapter "Methyltestosterone"). Among East European powerlifters and competing bodybuilders Testo-suspen-sion has always been a "last minute secret." Especially women can reliably change their estrogen/testosterone ratio to break down excessive water and to give softer muscles a visibly better hard-ness in a short time. Female bodybuilders usually have consider-ably greater difficulty in getting their calves and upper thighs in contest condition than their upper bodies. Often you see a female bodybuilder on the posing platform with striated pecs, delts and triceps, whereas her lower body appears flat and soft. For several reasons the estrogen level can be too high, leading to an increase in the hormone aldosterone. Since aldosterone regulates the body's own water household-meaning the higher the aldosterone level, the more water is stored by the organism-it is important to keep the aldosterone level as low as possible. Finally it is known that women by nature store fat and water mostly in their upper thighs. An optimal form for a competition requires a high an-drogen level with a minimal estrogen level. Women who on the day of competition never obtain the right muscle hardness can usually achieve a significant performance enhancement by in-jecting 25-50 mg Testosterone suspension daily during the last 1-4 days before the competition.

However, men also use Testosterone suspension during the last 10-14 days before a bodybuilding competition to make an all-out effort for optimal muscle hardness. Athletes report outstand-ing results when Testo -suspension is used together with the car-bohydrate/loading technique. The athlete unloads his body by depriving it of carbohydrates for several days and begins loading carbohydrates three days before a competition with the goal of storing as much glycogen in the muscle cells as possible. He can optimize this process by taking 5 0-100 mg Testosterone suspen-sion/day. Testosterone suspension considerably boosts the stor-ing of glycogen in the muscle cells and, since dissolved in water, becomes effective almost immediately. As is known, glycogen also bonds with water in the muscle cells, which manifests itself in extremely tight and full muscles.

In the mass-gaining phase Testosterone suspension is only rarely used. With respect to strength and muscle mass the gains, as with all injectable testosterone esters, are very good; however, this testosterone compound requires frequent injections in order to reach a performance-enhancing dosage. With 100 mg every 1-2 days rapid muscle gains can usually be obtained and the strength increase can usually be felt from the first day. However a stale effect remains since the injection of testosterone dissolved in water is not only extremely unpleasant but the pain at the injection area remains for some time. To endure such martyrdom for several weeks is not to everyone's liking. The gains disappear rapidly after use of the compound is discontinued.

http://www.domesticgear.com/testosteronesuspension.html

http://www.steroid.com/Testosterone-Suspension.php

all of what you posted can be detected through urine, the problem is when it comes the epo mircera, it cant be detected through urine nor can HGH but HGH has no benefit on you whatsoever

[Benny Leonard]

Ped experts here in BS=pacquiao haters/Experts in downgrading pacquiao's accomplishments/jealous that their favorite idol was overshadowed by pac. True story.

Do you know who the experts are?

The Chemist who come up with a way to beat the system.

Even Victor Conte can be called an "expert" considering he understood that a good chemist can work his magic around the testing system and knows a little something about PEDs in general to beat tests. He said you need testing all the up to competition. And didn't agree with Floyd even allowing a 14 day cut-off.

Next in line though are USADA and WADA who demand their athletes to take year round, random, unannounced testing all the way through until the completion of competition. They want that right to get you at any time because history has shown athletes work around the time-line of the testing. Now it isn't perfect but it is way better than the current joke of a test that Nevada runs who only does it because they can't afford the USADA testing.

Blood can also be saved for a long time just in case they aren't testing for something right now and discover it later. Now how much does that bother the athlete? Don't know.

[Benny Leonard]

all of what you posted can be detected through urine, the problem is when it comes the epo mircera, it cant be detected through urine nor can HGH but HGH has no benefit on you whatsoever

I was wondering, considering how long ago it was created, if you can make it undetectable with help of a nice chemist. Sports Chemist are more advanced now.

A reason to save the sample through blood.

I should have put that down. My fault.


Good point though in clearing that up. Pac was all for giving urine all the way through.

[flour]

I was wondering, considering how long ago it was created, if you can make it undetectable with help of a nice chemist. Sports Chemist are more advanced now.

A reason to save the sample through blood.

I should have put that down. My fault.


Good point though in clearing that up. Pac was all for giving urine all the way through.

yes they can come up with undetectable peds all the time but if they have no method of detecting it there's really no point of saving blood samples, they have saved blood b4 the balco scandal just wanna point that out
the way it works is the test are developed after the fact when the testing agencies come across an undetectable sample, case in point, the balco scandal, if that coach of those athletes who were supplied by balco didnt snitch and provided the sample, today, the clear would be pretty much undetected
i wanna make an analogy, the blood and urine test are pretty much like anti-virus software, look at viruses infecting your pc or computer as the drugs invading an athletes body, if the anti-virus or blood and urine test hasnt develop a signature for the virus or drug, there's no way it can detect it

you download an AVG virus today and if you dont update your virus signature, it's pretty much useless
chemist are alot like hackers, like chemist hackers try to come up with newer viruses that can destroy your pc that your antivirus cant recognize until its too late

like antivirus softwares, the quality of a testing agency depends on the many test they have develop to detect the known PEDS in existence.. we can say NSAC is an inferior testing agency because it hasn't adopted the EPO testing methods like USADA has... much like how the quality of an anti-virus depends on the many virus signature it has develop to detect the known viruses in existence, we can say norton antivirus is inferior to AVG because AVG has more virus signature it can detect and its also more up to date

blood testing is not an all knowing all detecting type of test compare to urine..pretty much like how there's no ultimate virus detecting software tat can detect anything through infinity
i just wanna make that point

there seems to be some misunderstanding floating around in the thread

[Benny Leonard]

yes they can come up with undetectable peds all the time but if they have no method of detecting it there's really no point of saving blood samples, they have saved blood b4 the balco scandal just wanna point that out
the way it works is the test are developed after the fact when the testing agencies come across an undetectable sample, case in point, the balco scandal, if that coach of those athletes who were supplied by balco didnt snitch and provided the sample, today, the clear would be pretty much undetected
i wanna make an analogy, the blood and urine test are pretty much like anti-virus software, look at viruses infecting your pc or computer as the drugs invading an athletes body, if the anti-virus or blood and urine test hasnt develop a signature for the virus or drug, there's no way it can detect it

you download an AVG virus today and if you dont update your virus signature, it's pretty much useless
chemist are alot like hackers, like chemist hackers try to come up with newer viruses that can destroy your pc that your antivirus cant recognize until its too late
i just wanna make that point

there seems to be some misunderstanding floating around in the thread

Yes, which is why they have a list they test for because that's what they can test for. They couldn't test for certain drugs at certain points which is why they weren't able to catch certain athletes using.

But isn't the point of saving blood also to prove the athlete was using the undetectable PED just in case someone does snitch, gives a sample, and the athlete denies using...which he can if he is in the clear with no sample?

I think it might help deter the user even if it doesn't deter everybody. The possibility of getting caught and/or sold out with your sample still in the freezer may deter some.


In the end, even the best tests out there aren't 100%. But the alternative is to what...Allow everybody to use because the tests won't catch everyone?


With USADA test vs. Boxing's current test...I would say at least have the best available test used.

[flour]

Yes, which is why they have a list they test for because that's what they can test for. They couldn't test for certain drugs at certain points which is why they weren't able to catch certain athletes using.

But isn't the point of saving blood also to prove the athlete was using the undetectable PED just in case someone does snitch, gives a sample, and the athlete denies using...which he can if he is in the clear with no sample?

I think it might help deter the user even if it doesn't deter everybody. The possibility of getting caught and/or sold out with your sample still in the freezer may deter some.


In the end, even the best tests out there aren't 100%. But the alternative is to what...Allow everybody to use because the tests won't catch everyone?


With USADA test vs. Boxing's current test...I would say at least have the best available test used.

you have a point yes, thats why the WADA has come up with the passport program in 2010 which is basically doing everything youre saying

on principle i can agree with you it's the right thing to be implemented but when it comes to logistic and financial portion that's up to them to figure out, it will cost alot of money and questions like who will finance it will definitely come into question so i wont chatter on that too much, if it happens then its good for boxing

but when it comes to manny v.s floyd, i definitely think the bloodtesting shouldnt come at the expense of the fight, as u may have already know, blood can only detect HGH and the epo mircera and urine cant besides that theyre practically the same,
i know from research HGH is pretty much useless, even victor conte said it and i quote him:
..."One, I think that increasing hematocrit levels, whether it’s by traditional blood-doping or the use of EPO, is of greater benefit to a boxer than the use of growth-hormone," he explained. "So growth-hormone is more of an anti-catobolic agent that may help to accelerate the healing of the tissue repair process. But growth-hormone is not anabolic as an anabolic steroid. It’s an anti-catabolic agent and I believe that you don’t get a very big **** for your buck. I’m not a huge fan of growth-hormone. I don’t think it’s tremendously beneficial performance enhancing substance".....


besides that there's alot of research and study on the effects of HGH and they are backing up what victor is saying
links for the researches:http://www.annals.org/content/148/10/747.long

and another :http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...v037p00100.pdf

and another:http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2010/s2890301.htm

its been since december ive waited, i just wanna see the fight, if they need to do blood testing, it would only be valid when they r testing for mircera which can be detected 40 days b4 the fight... so a 40 day cut off date is reasonable to me along with unlimited urine testing, i dont want blood testing to be the demise of this fight because we somehow need to crusade for better testing, we can have both but like i said, not at the expense of the fight, lets not make things too complicated wanting blood test to be the norm, its complicated as it is when it comes to the bout of the century.. so slow ur roll lol, thats about it

[Benny Leonard]

you have a point yes, thats why the WADA has come up with the passport program in 2010 which is basically doing everything youre saying

on principle i can agree with you it's the right thing to be implemented but when it comes to logistic and financial portion that's up to them to figure out, it will cost alot of money and questions like who will finance it will definitely come into question so i wont chatter on that too much, if it happens then its good for boxing

but when it comes to manny v.s floyd, i definitely think the bloodtesting shouldnt come at the expense of the fight, i know from research HGH is pretty much useless, even victor conte said it and i quote him:
..."One, I think that increasing hematocrit levels, whether it’s by traditional blood-doping or the use of EPO, is of greater benefit to a boxer than the use of growth-hormone," he explained. "So growth-hormone is more of an anti-catobolic agent that may help to accelerate the healing of the tissue repair process. But growth-hormone is not anabolic as an anabolic steroid. It’s an anti-catabolic agent and I believe that you don’t get a very big **** for your buck. I’m not a huge fan of growth-hormone. I don’t think it’s tremendously beneficial performance enhancing substance".....


besides that there's alot of research and study on the effects of HGH and they are backing up what victor is saying


its been since december ive waited, i just wanna see the fight, if they need to do blood testing, it would only be valid when they r testing for mircera which can be detected 40 days b4 the fight... so a 40 day cut off date is reasonable to me along with unlimited urine testing, i dont want blood testing to be the demise of this fight because we somehow need to crusade for better testing, we can have both but like i said, not at the expense of the fight thats about it

ME TOO

It's not my head getting hit so I just want to see them sign. At this point, if Floyd won't sign no matter what unless Manny agrees to USADA's rules of how they test, or WADA, and Manny only needs Nevada/Boxing to demand it of him and he'll take it...for the Love of God...tell Nevada/Boxing to just demand it of both fighters and let them {the fighters} pay for it considering they are making millions and Floyd and Shane already set the example...as well as some fighters at SMW I hear...yes..no?

However, if I was an athlete, specifically in Floyd's position with his legacy on the line...I can see why he would want to make sure he is on an "even playing field" with having the help of the best testing available right now to at least help catch and/or deter a possible user.


The only reason Nevada doesn't do it is because of Money. These two have the money to pay for it. Now if anyone wants to say..."But why should they have to do it but not everyone else?"
Well...not everyone in this country pays the same amount of taxes either. When you make more you give more because you tend to be entitled to more doors opening up...and even getting away with more.

Just the way it is.


And for Conte; didn't Conte disagree with Floyd's giving in to allowing a 14 day cut-off?
Saying that 5-7 days would be max.

Same interview I think we are talking about.