On reflection, was Pavlik really that good?

[Drunk Punch]

First off, this isn't intended to be a hate on Pavlik thread.

I'm just wondering that now everyone's had a little time to reflect, was Pavlik ever really that good?

Ok the win over Miranda. Looked good at the time, but we know now that Miranda can not cut it at world level. He's been resoundingly beaten every he met a world class opponent.

So, Pavlik has got that first legendary win over Taylor. Coming back off the canvas and then wearing down his opponent, followed by an awesome KO. That was a great win and no-one can take that away from him.

For me, the rematch, Taylor was a wounded animal. He tried to box at distance and look terrified of getting KO'd again. His tactics were over cautious and over respectful of Pavlik. Did Pavlik win that fight or did Taylor gift it to him? Still another good win for Pavlik.

So now we come to his reign as MW champ. Wins over C class fighters, Lockett, Espino, Rubio and losses to Martinez and Hopkins.

So the question is, how good was Kelly Pavlik and where does he go from here?

Is a fight with Williams irrelevant now? Can he move up a weight class and win a belt? Does he rematch Martinez?

[BoxingFanFirst]

Pavlik is good. He just does not by any means match up with speed guys. If he goes up to 168 though. I dont see him beating any of the top 7 guys.

[Siggy]

he gets the most out of his ability given his situation, a situation that he is partly responsible for putting himself in.
he shouldve left youngstown for greener pastures and got a new trainer a long time ago.
that being said, he's not very talented, but he is tall, long, has decent fundamentals, is a fairly smart dude in the ring and works hard. great heart and intangibles.
he's like that kid who hustles but falls just short in the end becuz of his lack of natural talent.

[dstew]

Obviously the Taylor wins remain his biggest accomplishments, but knowing what we know now about Taylor - that durable guys with heavy hands are his kryptonite because of how flat-footed and poorly-conditioned he is - you really have to question Pavlik's ability to beat a top-notch boxer.

That said, I think Pavlik was on his way to a late stoppage against Martinez if it weren't for the cuts.

[immortal tech]

good but not as good as arum was trying to sell but he is a top fighter no doubt

[Va_BoriKua]

Obviously the Taylor wins remain his biggest accomplishments, but knowing what we know now about Taylor - that durable guys with heavy hands are his kryptonite because of how flat-footed and poorly-conditioned he is - you really have to question Pavlik's ability to beat a top-notch boxer.

That said, I think Pavlik was on his way to a late stoppage against Martinez if it weren't for the cuts.

this right here

[SoldierWarrior]

He struggles agaisnt footwork, and Martinez slowed down alot between round 5-8 which were Pavlik rounds. Martinez got his composure back up in the 9th round when he cut Pavlik. It woke up the inner-beast in Martinez and from 9th to the 12th the fight was Martinez for the taking.

I scored the fight something like this.

1)Martinez
2)Martinez
3)Martinez
4)Martinez
5)Pavlik
6)Pavlik
7)Pavlik
8)Pavlik
9)Martinez
10)Martinez
11)Martinez
12)Martinez

And I forget which round Martinez was knocked down by Pavlik, you could also give Martinez a 10-8 round for one of the rounds where he just punished Pavlik entirely with blood splattering everywheres. Pavlik didn't go down but like the announcers said he was destroyed in one of those rounds entirely one-sided.

[Spray_resistant]

He is not the most talented or fighter with a wide array of skills but relied more on his size and strength advantage over MW opponents.

Pavlik is a fighter with excellent power, very good chin, heart but limited in terms of speed obviously, mobility, and a varied arsenal of punches.

[Va_BoriKua]

He struggles agaisnt footwork, and Martinez slowed down alot between round 5-8 which were Pavlik rounds. Martinez got his composure back up in the 9th round when he cut Pavlik. It woke up the inner-beast in Martinez and from 9th to the 12th the fight was Martinez for the taking.

I scored the fight something like this.

1)Martinez
2)Martinez
3)Martinez
4)Martinez
5)Pavlik
6)Pavlik
7)Pavlik
8)Pavlik
9)Martinez
10)Martinez
11)Martinez
12)Martinez

And I forget which round Martinez was knocked down by Pavlik, you could also give Martinez a 10-8 round for one of the rounds where he just punished Pavlik entirely with blood splattering everywheres. Pavlik didn't go down but like the announcers said he was destroyed in one of those rounds entirely one-sided.

the 7th round

[The Hammer]

I think Pavlik was very good, but he was better (more energetic, enthusiastic and sure of himself) before the Hopkins fight.

He seemed less confident against Rubio, although he easily won. However, in his last fight in December against Espino, he was starting to look better...

But now it's going to be really tough for him to come back.

Paul Williams would have been a good style matchup for Kelly, but the decision to fight Bernard Hopkins was a poor one by Bob Arum.

And whoever matched him against Martinez must have wanted to see Kelly lose, because Sergio is as bad a style matchup for him as could possibly be made!