You guys are really undersestimating Clottey.

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  • - JCHING -
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    #131
    Originally posted by rocky_balboa23
    who were the guys in Pac's resume that have the same fighting style as Clottey? Clottey is a beast and I will say it's a step up from Cotto fight.
    Clottey is a flat footed, come forward and in your face type fighter. The only difference to Pac's other recent opponents is a better defence.

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    • The_Sneaky
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      #132
      Originally posted by - JCHING -
      Yea, exactly.

      Pac beating Clottey will not be a bad thing necessarily - the guy is a top fighter. The thing is, Pac has beaten guys like Clottey a million times before and his style thrives on opponents like him.

      So IMO it's a pretty pointless fight at this stage of his career.
      Name one Pac opponent who has Clottey's style. Just one.

      Clottey is right-handed, defensive, pressuring, counter puncher who throws in combinations.

      He will be in Pac's face all night like most of Pac's opponents but crucially he'll be doing that from behind a very tight, responsible guard with excellent countering ability. He is not reckless with his offense and doesn't rely on his offense to overwhelm. He uses his defense to set up his offense. He is bigger and stronger and can physically manhandle Pac much better than most of his past opponents.

      Who has this style. Cotto? Hatton? de la Hoya? Diaz? Marquez? Morrales?

      The closest to Clottey's style are Marquez and Morrales and they are not as big, strong or fast and don't even have the foundation of Clottey's style. His impregnable defense. And they gave Pac hell for most parts of their fights with him.

      Pac is the favourite to win, but it won't be a dominating win and he stands a high chance of losing if he underestimates Clottey. Watch Clottey-Corrales(RIP).

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      • rocky_balboa23
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        #133
        Originally posted by - JCHING -
        Clottey is a flat footed, come forward and in your face type fighter. The only difference to Pac's other recent opponents is a better defence.
        He maybe flat footed and he is not the come forward, in ur face type of fighter. Have u even watched Clottey's fights? Have u watch Clottey against Judah? Clottey was throwing jabs at Judah with great accuracy and effectiveness and still was able to block Judah's quick combos. He will also be the biggest opponent that Pac will face.

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        • - JCHING -
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          #134
          Originally posted by The_Sneaky
          Name one Pac opponent who has Clottey's style. Just one.

          Clottey is right-handed, defensive, pressuring, counter puncher who throws in combinations.

          He will be in Pac's face all night like most of Pac's opponents but crucially he'll be doing that from behind a very tight, responsible guard with excellent countering ability. He is not reckless with his offense and doesn't rely on his offense to overwhelm. He uses his defense to set up his offense. He is bigger and stronger and can physically manhandle Pac much better than most of his past opponents.

          Who has this style. Cotto? Hatton? de la Hoya? Diaz? Marquez? Morrales?

          The closest to Clottey's style are Marquez and Morrales and they are not as big, strong or fast and don't even have the foundation of Clottey's style. His impregnable defense. And they gave Pac hell for most parts of their fights with him.

          Pac is the favourite to win, but it won't be a dominating win and he stands a high chance of losing if he underestimates Clottey. Watch Clottey-Corrales(RIP).
          I did not say Clottey's style is the same as other guys Pac has faced - I said Pac's style is suited to him, just as it was suited to Diaz, DLH, Hatton, Cotto etc.

          Also, Clottey is not faster than Morales or JMM or as skilled, and he does not have an "impregnable defense" - although it is better than Pac's recent opponents.

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          • hugh grant
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            #135
            Originally posted by HighFlyer
            *****s just wants to unhype Pac VS Clottey fight.
            It was *****s desperate move
            Its a testament to how good they think Pac is to say this is a mismatch. No one ever fought Clottey before and said it would be easy.
            *****s are just making excuses that it should be easy, but if pac makes it look hard, they will downgrade pac for making hard work of Clottey.

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            • The_Sneaky
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              #136
              Originally posted by IMDAZED
              Give me a break. Most avoided? He's fought Margarito, Judah, Cotto in the past two years. And I've seen all of those fights...you're blaming the reffing and judging? Really? Did the ref tie his hands in the championship rounds against a clearly weakening Cotto? How about the Margarito fight when he took, oh, five rounds off before his mysteriously injured hands recovered? And how in the WORLD can you blame a ref or judging in the Baldomir fight? If you repeatedly use your head to try and break the other guy's face (guess what?) you're going to get disqualified!

              Look, I won't be surprised if Clottey's natural size gives Pac hell and he even pulls off a shocker. But that's what it will be because nothing he's done in the past shows that he knows how to win a big fight. Only lose.
              No, the referee failed to penalise Cotto for the body slam, low blows and rabbit punch. The judges gave most of Cotto's rounds to him based on activity alone without using the official criteria clean effective punches.

              Against Margarito, the judges card were biased 118-110, 116-112 twice. The criteria for scoring officially: clean, effective punches(70%), effective aggression and defense(20%) and ring generalship(10%). If you watch that fight, the best you can give Margarito is 6-6 because he clearly lost the first 4 rounds and at least 2 of the last 8.

              Against Baldomir, the issue was not Clottey intentionally using his head, it was Clottey's stance and Baldomir's stance and Clottey's desire to be aggressive in the last part of that fight. He was far ahead on the score cards and handily trashing Baldomir and didn't need to foul to win.

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              • IMDAZED
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                #137
                Originally posted by The_Sneaky
                No, the referee failed to penalise Cotto for the body slam, low blows and rabbit punch. The judges gave most of Cotto's rounds to him based on activity alone without using the official criteria clean effective punches.
                The Cotto fight was close that could've gone either way. It was certainly up for grabs when Clottey took his foot off the pedal--when it mattered most (sound familiar?). As for the body slam, well that looked as blatant as the headbutt. Meaning, it's open for interpretation. And spare me with the low blows and "rabbit punch." Just wow.

                Against Margarito, the judges card were biased 118-110, 116-112 twice. The criteria for scoring officially: clean, effective punches(70%), effective aggression and defense(20%) and ring generalship(10%). If you watch that fight, the best you can give Margarito is 6-6 because he clearly lost the first 4 rounds and at least 2 of the last 8.
                Where do you get this "official" criteria percentage-wise from? And again, you are blaming judges because Clottey decided not to throw punches? WTF?

                Against Baldomir, the issue was not Clottey intentionally using his head, it was Clottey's stance and Baldomir's stance and Clottey's desire to be aggressive in the last part of that fight. He was far ahead on the score cards and handily trashing Baldomir and didn't need to foul to win.
                Exactly - which is why it was absolutely mind boggling. But not surprising if you've watched Clottey over the years. And it had NOTHING to do with stances. Dude, he clearly headbutted him TWICE, was warned, had a point deducted and then did it AGAIN. Whatever - well see what we want to.

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                • - JCHING -
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                  #138
                  Originally posted by rocky_balboa23
                  He maybe flat footed and he is not the come forward, in ur face type of fighter. Have u even watched Clottey's fights? Have u watch Clottey against Judah? Clottey was throwing jabs at Judah with great accuracy and effectiveness and still was able to block Judah's quick combos. He will also be the biggest opponent that Pac will face.
                  I think Clottey is a come forward fighter. He just moves in straight lines and follows his opponents around the ring - something Pac loves his fighters to do.

                  And sure catching Judah's attack is one thing, but Pacquiao's is on a different level - and if you think he's just gonna pick off Pac's shots and land better ones of his own you've got another thing coming. He's no JMM.

                  As I have said before, his best chance is to try and absorb as much of Pac's power shots as he can early by being very defensive, and then open up and unload more in the second half. I just don't think Pac will tire enough for that strategy to work, and he will more than likely lose his head after being caught with something.

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                  • rocky_balboa23
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                    #139
                    Originally posted by - JCHING -
                    I think Clottey is a come forward fighter. He just moves in straight lines and follows his opponents around the ring - something Pac loves his fighters to do.

                    And sure catching Judah's attack is one thing, but Pacquiao's is on a different level - and if you think he's just gonna pick off Pac's shots and land better ones of his own you've got another thing coming. He's no JMM.

                    As I have said before, his best chance is to try and absorb as much of Pac's power shots as he can early by being very defensive, and then open up and unload more in the second half. I just don't think Pac will tire enough for that strategy to work, and he will more than likely lose his head after being caught with something.
                    So who should Pac fight?dont tell me Mali***gi?Pac would destroy his gay ass. Clottey is more of a counter puncher than a stalker. He also has a very good jab much better jab than Cotto. If you think this fight will be easy then ur a ***** trying to discredit Pac's opponent. I'll bet even Floyd would have a hard time with Clottey.

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                    • The_Sneaky
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                      #140
                      Originally posted by - JCHING -
                      I did not say Clottey's style is the same as other guys Pac has faced - I said Pac's style is suited to him, just as it was suited to Diaz, DLH, Hatton, Cotto etc.

                      Also, Clottey is not faster than Morales or JMM or as skilled, and he does not have an "impregnable defense" - although it is better than Pac's recent opponents.
                      Clottey does have faster combination punching. Mention the skills Morrales or Marquez have better than Clottey. I have watched Morrales, Marquez and Clottey and my opinion is that Clottey has better technique execution than the other two. In terms of punch selection, punch accuracy and footwork. He throws better more varied combinations, better straight rights, better left hooks, better uppercuts, crisper, cleaner punches, better defense, leaves few openings when on the attack and is almost always in the correct position to attack or defend. Marquez, Morrales take more risk and are more exciting but Clottey is technically much better than both. I'm not basing this on name or fame just ability in the ring.

                      Ok maybe impregnable is extreme. But it's extremely effective. He hasn't been rocked, seriously hurt, dominated, knocked out or cut in any fight and that's because he's is very hard to land clean against. That's not my opinion, that's the comments of all his past opponents. And that against every type of fighter, power, speed or volume puncher. Apart from Mayweather, name me one top welterweight who comes out of fights with as little damage as Clottey. If that's not a testament of his 'impregnable defense' then I don't know what else there is.

                      Can you tell me how Pac can take advantage of Clottey's style? He will be pressuring Pac but that will be behind a tight guard. He will probably jab from behind the tight guard. He'll also time and counter when Pac is on the attack. He won't be reckless with his attack, he will probably aim to break Pac down by hitting hard accurate single shots(straight rights) and quick one handed combinations(left hooks) to the body and head that leave little room for Pac to counter. His guard will be up all the time, and he'll make Pac pay if Pac attempts to concentrate to his body because Pac's head will be exposed.

                      Pac does not outbox his opponents, he outlands and outpunches them. Pac relies on his offense to overwhelm his opponents and I believe Clottey's defense can shut that down. It effectively shut down Margarito(first 4), Cotto, Judah, Corrales. Those are big punchers, fast punchers, combination punchers, volume punchers. None could crack that guard and I doubt Pac can.

                      Roach is now talking about going to Clottey's body. First off, Pac is not a really good body puncher, he can punch to the body but he's not that effective enough for it to cause serious problems for his opponents. Secondly, Clottey knows how to defend his body pretty well and doesn't weaken when his body is attacked. Thirdly, he'll make Pac pay a high price for that strategy. You can reference his fights with Judah and Corrales for illustration.

                      Beyond all this is the fact that Pac is quite open to be hit. He doesn't defend himself very well from punches if he in the range of the punches. He compensates by movement but if someone catches up to him, he very open to hit.

                      I could be wrong in my assumptions but if Clottey is on top of his game there's very little Pac can do to get inside his guard or hurt him whiles he has all the skills to cause serious hurt to Pac.

                      All the fights I have seen of Clottey, there is no one who has outlanded him when he is uninjured. No one has convincingly beaten him. No one has ever hurt or dominated him in any condition. No one. I can't say the same for Pac's last four opponents or even Pac himself.

                      I could be wrong but if you forget the hype, this fight looks more like Hopkins-de la Hoya than Pac-Cotto.

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