WBA Ruiz ain't the REAL Heavyweight championship!!!!

**Super_Lightweight** · 05-01-2005, 09:21 PM

hmm

Everyone knows Toney isn't undisputed by any means, so why are you raising such a fuss?

Vitali is the most legit champion, but that's no reason to hate on Toney after a decent (not great) win.

**kovy** · 05-01-2005, 10:19 PM

He was a heavyweight champion. That IS the state of boxing. get over it. Just about anybody can become a champ until some kind of legitimate governing body gives a little credibility to the sport.

**Kid Achilles** · 05-01-2005, 10:54 PM

There's a huge difference between being THE heavyweight champion of the world and being A heavyweight champion. Vitali is THE heavyweight champion because he beat Sanders for Lewis's vacant belt.

Ruiz was just a title holder. In other words, he was a top contender. All those other belts amount to is a better chance of getting a title shot against the real champion. No one who seriously follows boxing actually considered Ruiz THE champion.

**.::|ULTIMATE|::.** · 05-01-2005, 10:57 PM

Vitali isnt the universally recognized heavyweight champ. Yeah he beat Sanders... and who was he anyway. He was so fat and unconditioned he was sucking wind like crazy really early. And Vitali wasnt far off either.

**Kid Achilles** · 05-01-2005, 11:05 PM

Regardless, the fight was for Lewis's belt. Ezzard Charles did not beat Louis for his belt either. Louis retired and Charles and Walcott fought for his vacant belt. Charles won and became the champion. That is exactly what happened with Lewis and Vitali.

**.::|ULTIMATE|::.** · 05-01-2005, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Kid Achilles

Regardless, the fight was for Lewis's belt. Ezzard Charles did not beat Louis for his belt either. Louis retired and Charles and Walcott fought for his vacant belt. Charles won and became the champion. That is exactly what happened with Lewis and Vitali.

Just cus it was for REAL champion's belt that he VACATED.. doesnt make him the REAL champion. He needs to beat the Real champion or some Real legitimate contenders not these bums he's fighting.

**Kid Achilles** · 05-01-2005, 11:18 PM

Actually I really do agree with you to some degree. I do think Vitali needs to get busy and clean up this division before he can be respected as a strong champion. However, Ezzard Charles WAS considered THE heavyweight champion of the world the moment he won that vacant title from Walcott and therefore Vitali should be recognized as such himself.

It's best when a fighter can become a champion by defeating the man who defeated the man who defeated the man etc., etc. but sometimes this simply can't be. Recognizing Vitali as champion for claiming Lewis's title in an elimination match (which is what he vs. Sanders was) is the next best thing. This keeps the lineage intact more so than simply proclaiming Ruiz as the champion on te grounds he's beaten better guys.

And if you think about it, it wouldn't be the first time that a champion has a worst resume than a top contender. Sonny Liston was beating a lot of top guys in brutal fashion while champion Floyd Patterson was picking on soft touches.

**.::|ULTIMATE|::.** · 05-01-2005, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by Kid Achilles

Actually I really do agree with you to some degree. I do think Vitali needs to get busy and clean up this division before he can be respected as a strong champion. However, Ezzard Charles WAS considered THE heavyweight champion of the world the moment he won that vacant title from Walcott and therefore Vitali should be recognized as such himself.

It's best when a fighter can become a champion by defeating the man who defeated the man who defeated the man etc., etc. but sometimes this simply can't be. Recognizing Vitali as champion for claiming Lewis's title in an elimination match (which is what he vs. Sanders was) is the next best thing. This keeps the lineage intact more so than simply proclaiming Ruiz as the champion on te grounds he's beaten better guys.

And if you think about it, it wouldn't be the first time that a champion has a worst resume than a top contender. Sonny Liston was beating a lot of top guys in brutal fashion while champion Floyd Patterson was picking on soft touches.

Ok how can he be recognized as THE champ when he holds a Loss to another title holder which he hasnt rematched.

It is not best... you cant be THE man without beating THE man. Vitali hasnt and therefore he isnt.

**Kid Achilles** · 05-01-2005, 11:36 PM

So then we should just never have a heavyweight champion again because Lewis isn't coming back. Actually scratch that. Since Marvin Hart never beat Jim Jeffries (Hart fought an elimination match with light heavyweight Jack Root for Jeffries's vacated title) he, and no one who came after him, should be considered champion. Following your logic, Jeffries was the last heavyweight champion since he retired unbeaten as champion.

This vacated title thing is not new to boxing. It's happened many times before. Whether or not you recognize him, Vitali is perceived by the boxing world as THE champion at the moment.

WBA Ruiz ain't the REAL Heavyweight championship!!!!