Pac fans and unbiased fans please explain...

[*!#@PBRick@#!*]

Floyd won't move from his stance on drug testing because he believes Pac is a cheater... This makes him a coward?

Pac won't move from his stance of being tested, why? And how does this not make him a coward?

[GameGod]

^ If the Pacquiao fans read this thread and thought the answers through, the forums wouldn't be filled with much of the rubbish in them.

[burlyman]

Lost in the shuffle is the fact that while a random blood test cannot be performed three and a half weeks before a fight, based on the proposed agreement that the Pacquiao Camp agreed to, a random blood test could be conducted anywhere from the press conference to the twenty four day cutoff date, that's around a five week window.

Here's Victor Conte's prescription to Dwain Chambers on how to beat the IAAF's testing procedures.

Dear Dwain,

Per your request, this letter is to confirm I am willing to assist you in providing UK Sport and others with information that will help them to improve the effectiveness of their anti-doping programs.

The specific details regarding how you were able to circumvent the British and IAAF anti-doping tests for an extended period of time are provided below.

Your performance enhancing drug program included the following seven prohibited substances: THG, testosterone/epitestosterone cream, EPO (Procrit), HGH (Serostim), insulin (Humalog), modafinil (Provigil) and liothryonine, which is a synthetic form of the T3 thyroid hormone (Cytomel).
Read more...

THG is a previously undetectable designer steroid nicknamed "the clear." It was primarily used in the off season and was taken two days per week, typically on Mondays and Wednesdays. Generally, these were the two most intense weight-training days of the week. The purpose was to accelerate healing and tissue repair. Thirty units (IU) of the liquid was placed under the tongue during the morning time-frame. THG was used in cycles of "three weeks on and one week off."

Testosterone/epitestosterone cream was also primarily used during the off season. It was rubbed into the skin on the front of the forearm two days per week, typically Tuesdays and Thursdays. The dosage was ½ gram which contained 50mg of testosterone and 2.5mg of epitestosterone (20 to 1 ratio). The purpose was to offset the suppression of endogenous testosterone caused by the use of the THG and to accelerate recovery. The testosterone/epitestosterone cream was also used in cycles of three weeks on and one week off.

EPO was used three days per week during the "corrective phase", which is the first two weeks of a cycle. Typically, it was on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. It was only used once per week during the "maintenance phase" thereafter, typically this was every Wednesday. The dosage was 4,000 IU per injection. The purpose was to increase the red blood cell count and enhance oxygen uptake and utilization. This substance provides a big advantage to sprinters because it enables them to do more track repetitions and obtain a much deeper training load during the off season. EPO becomes undetectable about 72 hours after subcutaneous injection (stomach) and only 24 hours after intravenous injection.

HGH was used three nights per week, typically on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Each injection would contain 4.5 units of growth hormone. Once again, this substance was used primarily during the off season to help with recovery from very strenuous weight training sessions.

Insulin was used after strenuous weight training sessions during the off season. Three units of Humalog (fast-acting insulin) were injected immediately after the workout sessions together with a powdered drink that contained 30 grams of dextrose, 30 grams of whey protein isolates and 3 grams of creatine. The purpose was to quickly replenish glycogen, resynthesize ATP and promote protein synthesis and muscle growth. Insulin acts as a "shuttle system" in the transport of glucose and branch chain amino acids. There is no test available for insulin at this time.

Modafinil was used as a "wakefulness promoting" agent before competitions. The purpose was to decrease fatigue and enhance mental alertness and reaction time. A 200mg tablet was consumed one hour before competition.

Liothryonine was used help accelerate the basic metabolic rate before competitions. The purpose was to reduce sluggishness and increase quickness. Two 25mg tablets were taken one hour before competition. There is no test available for liothryonine at this time.

In general terms, explosive strength athletes, such as sprinters, use anabolic steroids, growth hormone, insulin and EPO during the off season. They use these drugs in conjunction with an intense weight training program, which helps to develop a strength base that will serve them throughout the competitive season. Speed work is done just prior to the start of the competitive season.

...I certainly have more information that I would like the opportunity to provide to you and UK Sport, but I will leave that for another time.

Hopefully, this information will be helpful and I am available to assist you further upon request.

Yours sincerely,

Victor Conte

There's more at: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/olympics/athletics/7403158.stm

It is interesting how often the word cycle appears in that statement. What are the chances that PED's would be detected from a sample taken from week 9 to week 4 if Manny were cycling? If Manny were not cycling, then why take PED's at all?

Victor Conte is also of the opinion that neither Floyd nor Manny would be on Steroids or HGH, there is an interview on Maxboxing to that effect, he believes that the most likely PED a welterweight boxer would use is EPO, and it's known that EPO is detectable in urine samples. That's been the standard testing protocol in use since 2000, both the USADA and the Tour de France use urine testing, here's Don Caitlin defending it in 2006:

Blood, 1 September 2006, Vol. 108, No. 5, pp. 1778.

To the editor:

False-positive Epo test concerns unfounded

The brief report by Beullens et al is misleading regarding the urine test that the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) uses to detect recombinant human erythropoietin (rhEpo). The WADA-recommended test is based on immunoelectorphoresis and double blotting (IEF/DB), and was developed by Lasne and de Ceaurriz in 2000.

Our WADA-accredited laboratory has performed the IEF/DB test for rhEpo on more than 6800 urine samples, including more than 2600 doping control samples from athletes. Of the latter, we have reported 9 positive cases for rhEpo: 3 of these have publicly confessed to using rhEpo, 3 have accepted penalties, the physician of a seventh has been indicted for distribution of rhEpo, and 2 maintained their innocence but lost on appeal.

We take issue with Beullens's use of the term "false positive" because, as the authors emphasize, the compound they are discussing is not rhEpo. If the compound detected can be identified as not rhEpo, then it cannot cause a false positive. This term sensationalizes an otherwise interesting case report that could in due course contribute to the body of science.

The criteria used by the WADA laboratories are well known and readily available.3 Beullens et al do not state the criteria they used to make the "false-positive" claim. Using the WADA criteria, the "false-positive" electropherogram1(Fig1A) is clearly negative. Moreover, they do not include a negative or a positive urine quality-control sample. Forensic testing results are normally accompanied by a comprehensive documentation package that supports the conclusion. A report such as this that raises a profound issue (false accusations against an athlete) at a minimum requires far more documentation.

Don Catlin, Gary Green, Michael Sekera, Paul Scott, and Borislav Starcevic

More at bloodjournal.hematologylibrary.org/cgi/content/long/108/5/1778

Manny already agreed to unlimited, random urine samples.

Furthermore, new testing procedures for urine samples are being developed all the time. From the 2008 edition of the International Journal of Sports Medicine:

Erythropoietin (EPO) promotes the production of red blood cells, the key factor in the regulation of the oxygen transport, and has been abused by athletes for performance enhancement in endurance sports. Current methods to detect EPO misuse are based on isoelectric focussing (IEF), double blotting, and chemiluminescence detection. A new approach utilizing SDS-PAGE mobilities of target analytes is presented. Employing two internal standards (novel erythropoiesis stimulating protein and recombinant rat EPO), the assay provides a tool which allows the calculation of relative mobility values for endogenous urinary EPO and recombinant epoetins (e.g., Dynepo™) and, thus, the distinction of these analytes in doping control samples. A reference group of 53 healthy volunteers and samples originating from a Dynepo™ (epoetin delta) excretion study conducted with a single person were analyzed and led to a significant discrimination of endogenous urinary and recombinant EPO. A clear differentiation was accomplished over a period of four days post-administration of a single injection of 50 IU/kg body weight. Hence, the method may be useful as a screening procedure in doping control or as complementary confirmation tool to the established IEF assay.

thieme-connect.de/DOI/DOI?10.1055/s-2007-989369

These tests can be applied retroactively, cyclists have been busted using urine samples more than a year old.

[Avenue]

i like how the dude steve kim from maxboxing, acts like he isnt biased on the situation .. when the ****** links people on his twitter to pacland threads..
kinda analyst is that?

[*!#@PBRick@#!*]

I don't expect this thread to last because there is not explanation...

[.Sakuragi.]

Pac and his team compromised a 24 days cut off date which the judges and doctors in the mediation approves, while floyd's manager tried to convince floyd to accept it or just to counter offer which floyd rejects and walked away.

[ИATAS]

Mr. Floyd Mayweather's lack of ethics has become so flagrant that it merits your complete attention. By way of introduction, let me just say that if Floyd had two brain cells to rub together, he'd realize that if he had his way, schools would teach students that national-security interests can and should be sidestepped whenever Floyd's personal interests are at stake. This is not education but indoctrination. It prevents students from learning about how every time Floyd utters or writes a statement that supports stoicism—even indirectly—it sends a message that classism is a viable and vital objective for our nation's educational institutions. I suspect that we mustn't let him make such statements, partly because in a country like ours where solipsism, fanaticism, and mercantalism run rampant, we need laws to help enforce behavior that ought to be performed out of common sense, decency, and tolerance, but primarily because he likes to quote all of the saccharine, sticky moralisms about "human rights" and the evils of sensationalism. But as soon as we stop paying attention, Floyd invariably instructs his yes-men to craft propaganda that justifies turning grifters loose against us good citizens. Then, when someone notices, the pattern repeats from the beginning. Though this game may seem perverse beyond belief to any sane individual it makes perfect sense in light of Floyd's salacious morals.

Floyd and his forces are on a recruiting campaign, trying to convince everyone they meet to participate in forcing me to throw in the towel. Don't join that faction; instead, remember the scriptures: "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil." In a tacit concession of defeat, he is now openly calling for the abridgment of various freedoms to accomplish coercively what his bad-tempered dissertations have failed at.

Floyd is careless with data, makes all sorts of causal interpretations of things without any real justification, has a way of combining disparate ideas that don't seem to hang together, seems to show a sort of pride in his own biases, gets into all sorts of cuckoo speculation, and then makes no effort to test out his speculations—and that's just the short list! He maintains that he should be a given a direct pipeline to the National Treasury. Even if this were so, Floyd would still be uncontrollable. But when Floyd hears anyone say that this, of itself, is prima facie evidence that sane and bright minds turn into quivering wrecks upon contact with the madness that lies in his neo-irascible flimflams, his answer is to convince intrusive, vile beguilers that there is absolutely nothing they can do to better their lot in life besides joining him. That's similar to taking a few drunken swings at a beehive: it just makes me want even more to call people to their highest and best, not accommodate them at their lowest and least. There doesn't seem to be much we can do about this. That's just a fancy way of saying that Floyd has no sense of personal boundaries. This is not what I think; this is what I know. I additionally know that what really irks me is that Floyd has presented us with a Hobson's choice. Either we let him raise extortionate demands or he'll mollycoddle the worst types of foolish jackanapes there are.

If you were to tell Floyd that there is a cost, a cost too high to calculate, for messing with the lives and livelihoods of thousands of people, he'd just pull his security blanket a little tighter around himself and refuse to come out and deal with the real world. If one dares to criticize even a single tenet of his shell games, one is promptly condemned as homicidal, treasonous, subhuman, or whatever epithet he deems most appropriate, usually without much explanation. Floyd may unwittingly fight with spiritual weapons that are as disdainful as they are sop****ric. I say "unwittingly" because he is apparently unaware that he operates under the influence of a particular ideology—a set of beliefs based on the root metaphor of the transmission of forces. Until you understand this root metaphor you won't be able to grasp why contrary to my personal preferences, I'm thinking about what's best for all of us. My conclusion is that what's best for all of us is for me to present a clear picture of what is happening, what has happened, and what is likely to happen in the future.

Without beating around the bush, I'll tell you now what I have concluded about Floyd's sexist ideologies. I've concluded that if Floyd doesn't like it here, then perhaps he should go elsewhere. He extricates himself from difficulty by intrigue, by chicanery, by dissimulation, by trimming, by an untruth, by an injustice. Before you declare me dotty, let me assert that I'll tell you what we need to do about all the craziness Floyd is mongering. We need to take away as many of Floyd's opportunities for mischief as possible. Most people react to his oppressive, brusque perversions as they would to having a pile of steaming pig manure dumped on their doorstep. Even when they can cope, they resent having to do so. Speaking of resentment, in a recent tell-all, a former member of Floyd's junta writes that "the idea of letting Floyd shift our society from a culture of conscience to a culture of consensus is, in itself, directionless". Those are some pretty harsh words even when one considers that his machinations manifest themselves in two phases. Phase one: intensify race hatred. Phase two: threaten our core values, allegiances, and beliefs. Finally, whatever your thoughts or feelings about Mr. Floyd Mayweather are, I urge you to help me plant markers that define the limits of what is prurient and what is not.

[*!#@PBRick@#!*]

Mr. Floyd Mayweather's lack of ethics has become so flagrant that it merits your complete attention. By way of introduction, let me just say that if Floyd had two brain cells to rub together, he'd realize that if he had his way, schools would teach students that national-security interests can and should be sidestepped whenever Floyd's personal interests are at stake. This is not education but indoctrination. It prevents students from learning about how every time Floyd utters or writes a statement that supports stoicism—even indirectly—it sends a message that classism is a viable and vital objective for our nation's educational institutions. I suspect that we mustn't let him make such statements, partly because in a country like ours where solipsism, fanaticism, and mercantalism run rampant, we need laws to help enforce behavior that ought to be performed out of common sense, decency, and tolerance, but primarily because he likes to quote all of the saccharine, sticky moralisms about "human rights" and the evils of sensationalism. But as soon as we stop paying attention, Floyd invariably instructs his yes-men to craft propaganda that justifies turning grifters loose against us good citizens. Then, when someone notices, the pattern repeats from the beginning. Though this game may seem perverse beyond belief to any sane individual it makes perfect sense in light of Floyd's salacious morals.

Floyd and his forces are on a recruiting campaign, trying to convince everyone they meet to participate in forcing me to throw in the towel. Don't join that faction; instead, remember the scriptures: "Thou shalt not follow a multitude to do evil." In a tacit concession of defeat, he is now openly calling for the abridgment of various freedoms to accomplish coercively what his bad-tempered dissertations have failed at.

Floyd is careless with data, makes all sorts of causal interpretations of things without any real justification, has a way of combining disparate ideas that don't seem to hang together, seems to show a sort of pride in his own biases, gets into all sorts of cuckoo speculation, and then makes no effort to test out his speculations—and that's just the short list! He maintains that he should be a given a direct pipeline to the National Treasury. Even if this were so, Floyd would still be uncontrollable. But when Floyd hears anyone say that this, of itself, is prima facie evidence that sane and bright minds turn into quivering wrecks upon contact with the madness that lies in his neo-irascible flimflams, his answer is to convince intrusive, vile beguilers that there is absolutely nothing they can do to better their lot in life besides joining him. That's similar to taking a few drunken swings at a beehive: it just makes me want even more to call people to their highest and best, not accommodate them at their lowest and least. There doesn't seem to be much we can do about this. That's just a fancy way of saying that Floyd has no sense of personal boundaries. This is not what I think; this is what I know. I additionally know that what really irks me is that Floyd has presented us with a Hobson's choice. Either we let him raise extortionate demands or he'll mollycoddle the worst types of foolish jackanapes there are.

If you were to tell Floyd that there is a cost, a cost too high to calculate, for messing with the lives and livelihoods of thousands of people, he'd just pull his security blanket a little tighter around himself and refuse to come out and deal with the real world. If one dares to criticize even a single tenet of his shell games, one is promptly condemned as homicidal, treasonous, subhuman, or whatever epithet he deems most appropriate, usually without much explanation. Floyd may unwittingly fight with spiritual weapons that are as disdainful as they are sop****ric. I say "unwittingly" because he is apparently unaware that he operates under the influence of a particular ideology—a set of beliefs based on the root metaphor of the transmission of forces. Until you understand this root metaphor you won't be able to grasp why contrary to my personal preferences, I'm thinking about what's best for all of us. My conclusion is that what's best for all of us is for me to present a clear picture of what is happening, what has happened, and what is likely to happen in the future.

Without beating around the bush, I'll tell you now what I have concluded about Floyd's sexist ideologies. I've concluded that if Floyd doesn't like it here, then perhaps he should go elsewhere. He extricates himself from difficulty by intrigue, by chicanery, by dissimulation, by trimming, by an untruth, by an injustice. Before you declare me dotty, let me assert that I'll tell you what we need to do about all the craziness Floyd is mongering. We need to take away as many of Floyd's opportunities for mischief as possible. Most people react to his oppressive, brusque perversions as they would to having a pile of steaming pig manure dumped on their doorstep. Even when they can cope, they resent having to do so. Speaking of resentment, in a recent tell-all, a former member of Floyd's junta writes that "the idea of letting Floyd shift our society from a culture of conscience to a culture of consensus is, in itself, directionless". Those are some pretty harsh words even when one considers that his machinations manifest themselves in two phases. Phase one: intensify race hatred. Phase two: threaten our core values, allegiances, and beliefs. Finally, whatever your thoughts or feelings about Mr. Floyd Mayweather are, I urge you to help me plant markers that define the limits of what is prurient and what is not.

Summarize this please, thanks...

[*!#@PBRick@#!*]

Pac and his team compromised a 24 days cut off date which the judges and doctors in the mediation approves, while floyd's manager tried to convince floyd to accept it or just to counter offer which floyd rejects and walked away.

Why is drug testing something that needs to be negotiated? They both have to take the tests...

[.Sakuragi.]

Why is drug testing something that needs to be negotiated? They both have to take the tests...

Urine testing now can detect HGH, EPO, and PED's according to the CEO of USADA last year.