50k to any *****s if u have 5 fact pacs on roids

[PensionKiller]

wtf are you talking about? facts??! you don't need no nothing of that, we got some better stuffs right here, we call them hunches.

you see when you have been to the gym, we have what you call rumor... errr inside info. i've been a wrestler/boxer/kickboxer/football player/weight lifter/just loves to hang round the gym to watch grown men sweat and work out/body builder before and i have this friend/acquaintance/butt buddy/ex bf/love slave that used to do steroids and he shares the same symptoms with pac, that's all the proof i need.

[IMG]http://img.***********.com/albums/v511/ummid/sherlock_holmes_and_watson.jpg[/IMG]

Tony balir and george bush had a hunch that sadam hussain had weapons of mass destruction.

1 million innocent people died. Imagine if 1 million of the people in your town died.

anyway why in his gym has a hunch? shawn porter is in his gym. whom goes on ehre and said he works damn hard and ofcoruse was niot as good when younger because he didn't have the money or knowledge for the ebst things.

you seen pac in the gym?

Sorry you don't win 50k for a hunch. Take that into court

[ace2ace234]

mike19727 this is a question for you what can a blood test detect that a urine test cant???
I cant believe how clueless all of you are on this subject a urine test is far and I mean far SUPERIOR than a blood test for detecting Ped's...this is a FACT not opinion go ask any doctor or any person who has ever been involved in professional sports......

[jreckoning2]

mike19727 this is a question for you what can a blood test detect that a urine test cant???
I cant believe how clueless all of you are on this subject a urine test is far and I mean far SUPERIOR than a blood test for detecting Ped's...this is a FACT not opinion go ask any doctor or any person who has ever been involved in professional sports......

the point giver has noticed your e-poverty and has given you points.
happy new year from the point giver.

[PensionKiller]

1- Physique: Just recently Juan Manuel Marquez moved up alot of weight to fight Mayweather, Marquez unlike Pacman retained some water weight. He was muscular but not ripped as pacman who now looks like bruce lee. Boxer Kermit Cintron has said there is no way without some perfomance enhancement drugs can you gain over 20 pounds of muscle in such a short time. Even Duran, De La Hoya, and Mayweather didnt look that ripped.

Pac is not as ripped as he was at featherweight, 130 or even at 135. He is gotten bigger and stronger but not as toned as before. The myth he is like Bruce Lee can be seen by these 2 photo's.

Picture 1 at even, not even 126. Next to Diaz. Infact Diaz is just as toned.


Picture 2 at 144. Cotto at 145, who actually has better abs.



Cintron must not follow boxing because Pac has steadily gone up. He first fought at Featherweight in December 2003. It is now December 2009. Is 20 lbs over 6 years unreasonable?

He also has from 130 rehydrated up to 145 and now rehydrates to 149. That is not a huge amount of difference.

2- He seems to get stronger with weight. If you look at pacman he was actually knock down 5 times at 126 and lower. He was knocked out twice by torrecampo and Singurat 3k batter, and was taken down by a stiff jab by Hussein at 122. He was in his 20's in 4 of his knockdowns not a teenager as many say. But now he is willing to allow Cotto give him free body shots on the ropes. Cotto a man who can knockout a natural welter with ONE body shot and couldnt do any damage to pac with dozens. He had to go 12 rounds with Marquez twice, Larios, and Morales (1st fight) but now he can physically dominate naturally bigger fighters as David Diaz, De la hoya, Hatton, and Cotto.

Cotto is mentioned. Cotto had great difficulty making 140. He got dropped down by Torres 2 or even 3 times in that fight before he Knocked Torres out. The guy has faced Mosley, Judah, Clottey without getting knocked down. Is Torres a harder hitter than all 3?

My opinion is no.

As mentioned above, Pac has gone down by 15 pounds a fight. That is a lot for such a small man. He has mentioned a few times that he was weight drained. It is in boxing knowledge that being weight drained and having elss liquid in the brain can distalise you a lot easier when hit.

Now I go to the gym. When I am heavier, I am definitely stronger. I also have fasted and lost 6 kilo's. Which is 13.2 Lbs. I know for a fact that I lost strength. Now that Pac comes back up to 149 from 144, that's only 5 lbs. It is obvious that he has kept more muscle than gained water weight which obviously does not help with power but does make you feel better if you are dehydrated.

Hatton, Oscar, Diaz have been mentioned to not be in prime.

Lazcano hurt Hatton and Floyd who is not a KO artist at 147 managed to KO him.
Oscar had not fought at 147 for a long time. 2001 to be exact against Gatti. Note that he chased the fight at 147, avoiding Margarito.

Diaz was not able to cope with the speed.

Cotto had very tough fights with Margarito, Torres, Judah, Clottey and Mosley. He fought the wrong fight trying to be the bigger man. Pacquaio loves to slug it out and his speed was the difference. If you watch the replay, or ask DLT, who has rewatched it numerous times in slow motion, he will say that Cotto missed a lot and very rarely hit flush unless with the hooks on the ropes.

Pac is also not that smaller compared to them. Hatton and Cotto are maximum 1 inch taller. Oscar is 5 '10 but was very light in the fight.

Pacquaio also did not get hit very much in his 3 previous fights and was fresh VS Cotto. Cotto however had a SD against Clottey in a tough fight. It is also a fact that he fought Margarito who tried to use illegal wraps against Mosley. I wouldn't like to get hit by those wraps. Perhaps he faced them, perhaps not.



3-Stamnia - Most fighters show fatigue and less sting in their punches in the late rounds. But pacman never shows any signs of that. in fact, the volume of punches get hige often. People say steroids hamper stamina for boxing. WRONG. If steroids don't help stamina why would pitchers like Clemens and Pettite take them if they decrease and not increase pitches thrown and innings pitched . In addition, these drugs help increase recovery time. Most importantly, pacman has been active for 15 years as a fighter and he never shows any effects of his tough fights. His energy seems to be get higher even after numerous slugfests. After Duran fought Hagler in a 15 round battle he had nothing left for Thomas Hearns and was knocked out in 2 rounds.

Every boxer knows that missing makes you more tired. Pacquiao deals with slugfests great because he has the speed, angles and accuracy to connect compared to most opponents. Pacquaio works very hard on the road, and he has a nutritionalist and also Alex Ariza who deals with conditioning.

Not having those 2 early on and now having them will ofcourse benefit him if not for the better, atleast make him even to what he had before. It will not get any worse.

Rampage Jackson hired Kerry Kaye's who was Ricky Hatton's nutritionalist. He has claimed that his power is up and Kerry has said it can be up to 33%

That's a hell of a lot.

He also has not been to 12 rounds in his last 4 fights. He did appear to tire in the later rounds VS Cotto in my opinion.

4-Head- His head seems to get bigger in proporation to his body. These are signs of HGH and other substances.

Cintron have already accused him. NO LAWSUIT yet. Even Paulie Maglignaggi has suggested he is on PEDs on two occasions. Why not even a press conference denying it?

Figure 1 shows him 130 VS VALASQUEZ



Figure 2 shows him at 144 COTTO



His hair style is different which does play a big role in someone's face. Ask any woman lol. I would like to crop his hair the the other style but can not be bothered. His ears do not show up much against Cotto so that shows you it is atleast 2 CM longer

He has a beard which gives an impression he is bigger. This happens in the animal kingdom and even in humans that when we fear, our hairs stand up. It gives the impression we are bigger.

Notice that in his face, his cheek bones do not stand out. His head is not bigger, he has more water weight in his face.

Have you ever met someone who is ill and noticed their face looks a lot skinnier? Have you seen pictures of your dad in the 20's and now at 30, 40? His head is not bigger but he may have gained 20 lbs over the years.

As for Malliagi and Cintron. Both are bias.

One is a peaorto Rican in the same division. Cintron should rematch Martinez and hopefully not cry

The other has fought and lost to 2 guys that destroyed him. Paulie has always loved the limelight, and is in it with his outbursts.

[PensionKiller]

5- Designer Steroids can't be Traced- The fact is synthethic steroids as THG, Madol and Genabol can't be traced. There are also synthetic stimulants that can't be traced. So of course he hasen't tested positive. Futhermore, as boxer malginaggi said they dont check even the blood. That means HGH cant be traced, and even blood tests are limited in finding HGH. Morevoer,boxing dosent do random tests so the boxer can even cycle it out of the system before and after a fight. Cycling and Track and field give numerous random testing. In addition, they have a sysem in place where they can check for abnormalities in blood as hemoglobing, RBC,WBC, and Testesterone to see if designer drugs are being taken. The same can be said about stimulant and painkiller drugs used to have more energy and take pain. Many MMA Fighters have admitted taking painkillers used to take blows without being drowsy.

Floyd uses Painkillers in his hands. He should get it checked.

As for the rest, I don't know enough on this, but I do know that no other boxer has done these tests.

The greats and HOF'ers of Ali, SRR, Lewis, Tyson, Holmes, Pep, Whitaker, Mayweather Junior, Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, A Nelson, Morales, Barerra, JMM, Cazlaghe, Hopkins, Tito, Wright and Holyfield have never ever done these tests and have never been asked to do so.

6-Never heard of Steroids: Manny has stated he never heard of steroids. That is both humorous and preposterous at once. I guess when they do his urine drug tests he thinks they are checking if he takes Flinstones Vitamins for kids or if he takes energy bars. Of course, HE KNOWS. They even have to sign papers with drug tests. That sounds very defensive to say i never heard of steroids.

He said he doesn't know what it looks like. There is a difference. I have heard of it, but have not seen a steroid before. Does that mean I'm a roider?

Show me an article that he said he has never heard of it, and I'll buy the biggest cucumber in the supermarket and stick it up my ass for you and host in on image shack.

7-No Wear Down: All fighters are human after numerous fights they start to show age and wear down. Pacman has been active for 15 years as a fighter and he never shows any effects of his tough fights. His energy seems to be get higher even after numerous slugfests. After Duran fought Hagler in a 15 round battle he had nothing left for Thomas Hearns and was knocked out in 2 rounds. Even Hagler after the Duran fight looked shaky with Roldan early on. He even had his only official knockdown on the 1st round. Although some will argue it was half slip and half punch. Pacman has had tough wars with Morales, Marquez, Sanchez, Barreras etc., yet he seems to be impervious to slowing down as a fighter. Hagler a very conditioned fighter definitely started to slow down after his fights with Duran, Hearns, and John Beast Mugabi. Hagler was very slow in the Leonard fight due to the constant wars he had.

Pacquaio has had wars. Do roids actually stop you from taking damage? I do not know enough but I don't think so. I do know that he is one of the most conditioned fighter however.

When he gets hit, he moves back off balanced and has a high guard. That takes away a lot of the punches.

Watch Morales 1, he lost but a lot of the times he ran backgrounds to the ropes and got hit a lot less than a slower fighter.

Pacquaio has not been in a war lately other than Cotto.

Punch stats are:

Pacquiao 336 / 780

Cotto 172 / 597

TOTAL PUNCHES CONNECTED: Pacquiao 224, De La Hoya 83 who was not very fast.

Pacquaio has underrated head and body movement. No obne can fight his way without these subtle movements.


There are journeymen who have taken a lot more damage and lasted 12 rounds. Hvae you not seen journeymen that have 6 losses but have taken so many punches and rarely by KO?

Hagler fought better opponents, and Leonard was fresh from retirement when he got to him. Hagler was always in wars, even VS lower level fighters. He took 1 to land 1 while Pacquaio lands 2 or 3.

Even in a fight with Alan Minter, he went to war when he clearly was much more skilled

8- Top Rank doesent sue for Libel or Slander: Floyd Mayweather Jr and his father both have accused pacman of taking perfomance enhancing drugs. Bob Arum is an attorney why wouldnt he seek relief and damages for his top prize fighter's reputation being questioned? Because if top rank sues and they testify and its proven later that manny took drugs than they can go to jail for perjury. Some will say he wants to fight mayweather so he wont sue but other fighters as Kermit Cintron have already accused him. NO LAWSUIT yet. Even Paulie Maglignaggi has suggested he is on PEDs on two occasions. Why not even a press conference denying it?

Lawsuit just happened. Arum and Pacquiao obviously wanted to make their 30-50 million.

When Pacquaio was first accused, there was not enough coming from the other side. He was fighting Cotto.

Now there is no fight, he has time for the legal proceedings. Ever been to court? Me neither but it can take up to years.

Cintron and Malliagi may get it soon enough. Let's see if Pac wins this and if he does, the others better watch out.

Pacquiao is not even in the same country as Arum. The time difference is night and day. Pacquaio has said in his facebook and the press numerous times that he does not.

[PensionKiller]

9-Philippine culture: This dosent sound politically correct but i know the culture, I been to the philippines. I can speak some tagalog and cebuano. The country has a long history of corruption, scandals, and political wrong doing. The manila airport is the only major airport that charges a terminal fee for using their facility. Hotels are known to trump up charges on visitors. Manny knows the culture wells. The motivation is to make millions of dollars by cheating. If Manny stays at Featherweight and lower he wont make $10-$20 Million fight. He at best will be like Chris John of Indonesia a featherweight making at most $1 million a fight.

I know America well.

50% of the US is obease. How does Mayweather amke 144? Oh he didn't, he must be obease.

I know that the president had no sexual relations with that secretary.

I can speak english.

I don't mind the politically incorrect, the fact that you think he is cheating to make millions because the filipino people are corrupt is like saying all americans are fat and are redneck racists.

Are you the same as the whole population of your country?

Let me ask you, are you even exactly the same as your father, mother, brother or sister or do you like different food? have different interests? like to sleep in different positions?

If you can't do all of that exactly the same as people in your own household, then what do you expect him to do with the whole of philipines?

10- Character: Many people keep saying that Manny is a good Christian guy and his character wont allow him to cheat. Ask his wife Jenkie about that. She was loyal to him before he was a big star. Now it is revealed he has cheated likely numerous times. I personally dont care about his personal life. But it raises an interesting question? If a man is willing to cheat on loyal wife and mother of his kids is it impossible to believe he would cheat in a sport to make millions?

I know many people who cheat, but do not rob banks, use roids, murder people or even smoke weed. Does one sin mean you will do the other?

Have you ever done a wrong, a sin? Do you use roids? Do you watch kiddie ****?

TWO WEAK CASES IN 9 AND 10


11- Not overtrained after taking 8000 calories a day: Pacman takes 8000 calories a day to make weight. But he also needs to burn that, to burn all those calories without PEDs would be impossible without overtraining and having left for the fight.

He works 4 hours a day. The average man burns 2500 calories without exercise. He does this for 8 weeks only.

If a man can go to the moon, climb mount everest, run 26 miles in fel marathons up and down mountains, swim from England to France, fight 15 rounds in Africa, bench 350 lbs, run 100 metres in 9.6 seconds and look at the camera, then eating 8k calories a day is not unusual.

He needs the calories and protein for muscle recovery. His body changes a lot. Like Ricky Hatton changes a damn lot from 180 fat to 140 toned up. Heck it's almost like the beast and then beauty. No ****


12-Defies Reality: Unfortunately, we have seen boxers as Vargas, Jones, Toney, Mosley get caught. We were foolish to believe that Mcgwire and Sosa hit 70 home runs and 66 home runs due to hard work and talent. Than Barry Bonds breaks the record a few years later, a record that couldnt be touch for nearly 40 years. Now we have a boxer that is Henry Armstrong with shocking power. There were many great asian fighters with shocking power as Thai fighter Galaxy and Fighting Harada and they couldnt make much impact in 3 divisions let alone 7. When De La Hoya fought Hopkins at 160 he was KOd with one body punch. THe Great Jose Napoles couldnt handle the naturally bigger Monzon, Arguello couldnt finish Pryor on his quest for his 4th weight division crown. Now we have a Flyweight knocking out welters SO EASy. He is like a God. But he didnt look like a god before at 122. He is not a god. He is JUST JUICED UP

He has improved and become a man. At 106 he was 16.

You don't fully mature at 22/23 in boxing IMO. He had no proper training and relied on pure athletism and power. He also got man power as he got older.

Since Roach, he is not just a left handed fighter. Even in JMM 1 he only used 2 combo's and a left. Easier to defend right when you get hit with just a powerful left.

Well now he has a right. He's just as fast but has two hard hands.

Paulie Malliagi would be a better fighter with two hard hands right? I think so.
He's a southpaw and dificult for orthodox fighters'.

Are fighters at 140, 147 use to his speed? no more than 3 people are as fast as him at 140 and then 147. Less than 6 IMO. Go down in weight and they get a lot closer, not as fast but the average speed is more. They are use to the speed.

Oscar said speed. Diaz said speed, Cotto said speed. Hatton was down for 2 weeks to answer my question.

Pac has improved footwork, better sparring partners, Roach knows him better, Ariza for conditioning, a nutritionlist, a huge team to cook and help him, an adviser, more knowledge of the game and better angles, skills with the same athletism and power that got him through the lower weights.

He does not have to drain so much, and can take a better punch.
He has also faced opponents suited to his style and has the power to choose puncher 8 ounce gloves as opposed to the softer ones.

He's always been faster than his opponents and that is a big advantage. Speed kills

He is a big name now, and he gets to call the shots. Boxing is not on equal levels, it has politics. If you are favoured by promoters, then you have a better chance to win.

You have a powerful car, but the only good thing is the engine.

Buy a turbo, spoiler, race tyres, suspension, carbon fibre, maybe a new chasis and you have a better car for racing.
My conclusion, not taking the tests is not helping him, but does he have to? No. Is he using roids in my opinion? No.

[PensionKiller]

Bump.

Make it 3 facts or evidence for 100k then

offer ends 31.12.2009 11.59 gmt

[Warbeast]

only idiots believe the roid thing.

sadly, there are a lot of them to be found here.

those with medical knowledge and common sense beg to differ.

[PensionKiller]

Bump. No one want 100k? Well post proof that he is on roids please just for the sake of boxing, not floyd but boxing. Any body just post something.

Post 3 FACTS. All I ask is 3 facts.

You still have a few hours.

[C.Y.]

Bump. No one want 100k? Well post proof that he is on roids please just for the sake of boxing, not floyd but boxing. Any body just post something.

Post 3 FACTS. All I ask is 3 facts.

You still have a few hours.

great responses in the earlier posts, id give you green k but i already gave it out earlier