GBP in bed with USADA

[Doctor_Tenma]

*****s don't believe on this. They want 5 or more blood tests in 2 months period to disrupts Pac training and focus.

He does movies and concerts, go somewhere else with that crap.

[menoari]

The thing that negates the OP's entire conspiracy theory is that GBP has agreed to work with somebody outside of the USADA if that is what Arum and Manny want. They just want to ensure that the testing is completely random and, frankly, that makes perfect sense. Random means random, and not when the athlete says he'll do it.

Another thing that the OP fails to point out when reading what exactly the USADA does is that they are an organization that offers "contract testing" in the United States. Which means they can be hired to collect samples and handle the testing, as long as they follow the International Standards for Doping Control, also known as the World Anti Doping Code. So it's not like it's some big conspiracy that GBP and Mayweather picked them. They follow a code and standard for testing that is recognized around the world.

What type of sample is taken, be it blood, urine, or both, and the structure of when it is appropriate to conduct the in competition and out of competition testing is something that is worked out between the organizations conducting the event, in this case that is Floyd and Manny, and the agency handling the testing, which would be the USADA. The World Anti Doping Code is very specific on the fact that both blood and urine samples are to be provided when asked for, and also that the standards that are applied to each sporting event are thoroughly analyzed while creating the unique testing plan. It is also very specific that the tests be conducted in a completely random manner, and with the athlete only getting a one hour window for meeting with the agent that will conduct the test when contacted for random testing.

I had links, but it wouldn't let me post them because I am new, but anybody can go to the USADA's website and see that under the "What We Do" section there is a section on contract testing. You can also do a simple google search for "International Standards for Testing 2009" and the very first link is a PDF of the policy on testing.

Just because some people don't like the source of an idea, in this case Team Mayweather, it does not take away from the validity of the argument. The entire sports world is in need of stricter testing policies and Boxing could do a great service to itself by stepping up it's standards across the board.

Upon further thought and taking what you posted to be true (I didn't google it in short), doesn't this mean that the possibility of blood test close to fight day is nothing but a demand by Team Floyd? which Team Pac could rightly refuse, the same not being part of "standard protocol" of testing by USADA? The implications of that are mind boggling ...

[HighUnderground]

Underground, part of what you state -

"What type of sample is taken, be it blood, urine, or both, and the structure of when it is appropriate to conduct the in competition and out of competition testing is something that is worked out between the organizations conducting the event, in this case that is Floyd and Manny, and the agency handling the testing, which would be the USADA. The World Anti Doping Code is very specific on the fact that both blood and urine samples are to be provided when asked for, and also that the standards that are applied to each sporting event are thoroughly analyzed while creating the unique testing plan. It is also very specific that the tests be conducted in a completely random manner, and with the athlete only getting a one hour window for meeting with the agent that will conduct the test when contacted for random testing."

I understand the italicized as meaning USADA can modify their testing procedures to incorporate the agreements of their clients like Pac and Floyd here. I have been under the impression from the statements and articles on this board that USADA follows a protocol that neither Floyd or Pac could modify, thereby preventing the possibility of any cut off date as this was against protocol. (Yeah, trying to discern truth from message boards is dangerous business but I learned my lesson again, lol).

Damn, I've been taken for a ride!

It does mean that to a small degree, however, there is still standard protocol in place that must be followed, and a part of that protocol is preparing what they call "Test Distribution Plans". When making these plans they have to take a lot of things into consideration. The following quotes are some passages from the code.

Just to clarify, ADO is short for "Anti Doping Organization", or in this case the USADA.

4.2.2 Planning starts with the gathering of information (e.g., in relation to the
number of relevant Athletes in a particular sport/discipline/nation, as well as the
basic structure of the season for the sport/discipline in question, including
standard competition schedules and training patterns for each sport/discipline);
evaluating the potential risk of doping and possible doping pattern for each
sport/discipline/nation; and then developing a Test Distribution Plan that deploys
the available resources in the most efficient and effective way to address those
risks.

4.3.2 The ADO shall, as a minimum, evaluate the potential risk of doping and
possible doping pattern for each sport and/or discipline based on:
a) The physical demands of the sport and/or discipline and possible
performance-enhancing effect that doping may elicit;
b) Available doping analysis statistics;
c) Available research on doping trends;
d) The history of doping in the sport and/or discipline;
e) Training periods and the Competition calendar; and
f) Information received on possible doping practices.

4.3.4 The ADO shall allocate the number of Sample collections that it has at its
disposal for each sport/discipline/nation (as relevant), including between urine
and blood Testing and between Out-of-Competition Testing and In-Competition
Testing. The allocation of resources between urine and blood Testing and
between Out-of-Competition Testing and In-Competition Testing shall take into
account the relative risks of doping in such periods for each sport/discipline under
evaluation.

4.3.8 As part of the Test Distribution Plan, the ADO shall allocate the type of
test for each sport/discipline/nation, as relevant, including as between urine and
blood Sample collection, based on an analysis of the risks of doping for the
particular sport/discipline in question, as explained in Clause 4.3.4.

4.3.9 The ADO shall ensure that the timing of Testing is planned to ensure
optimum deterrence and detection of doping practices.

4.3.10 Save in exceptional and justifiable circumstances, all Testing shall be No
Advance Notice:
a) For In-Competition Testing, placeholder selection may be known in
advance. However, random Athlete/placeholder selection shall not be
revealed to the Athlete until notification.
b) All Out-of-Competition Testing shall be No Advance Notice save in
exceptional and justifiable circumstances.

4.4.2 ADOs shall ensure that a significant amount of Testing undertaken
pursuant to the Test Distribution Plan is Target Testing, based on the intelligent
assessment of the risks of doping and the most effective use of resources to
ensure optimum detection and deterrence. The factors that will be relevant to
determining who should be made the subject of Target Testing will vary as
International Standard for Testing, January 2009 27 of 91
between different sports, but could include (without limitation) some or all of the
following factors:
a) Abnormal biological parameters (blood parameters, steroid profiles, etc);
b) Injury;
c) Withdrawal or absence from expected Competition;
d) Going into or coming out of retirement;
e) Behaviour indicating doping;
f) Sudden major improvements in performance;
g) Repeated failure to provide Whereabouts Filings;
h) Whereabouts Filings that may indicate a potential increase in the risk of
doping, including moving to a remote location;
i) Athlete sport performance history;
j) Athlete age, e.g. approaching retirement, move from junior to senior
level;
k) Athlete test history;
l) Athlete reinstatement after a period of Ineligibility;
m) Financial incentives for improved performance, such as prize money or
sponsorship opportunities;
n) Athlete association with a third party such as coach or doctor with a
history of involvement in doping; and
o) Reliable information from a third party.

4.4.3 Testing which is not Target Testing shall be determined by Random
Selection, which shall be conducted using a documented system for such
selection. Random Selection which is weighted shall be conducted according to
clear criteria and may take into account the factors listed in Clause 4.4.2 (as
applicable) in order to ensure that a greater percentage of ‘at risk’ Athletes is
selected.

5.3.1 Other than by exception, No Advance Notice shall be the notification
method for Sample collection.

So in theory, yes, the USADA's policies are not going to be the same for every single sport or event they are contracted to oversee. However, the scope of which any of the overseeing parties are involved (in this case MP, GBP, and Top Rank) is merely in the development and planning stages, to which there is a strict protocol to follow. The one thing that is clear in the code is that the Athletes have the understanding that they can be randomly tested at anytime.

[HighUnderground]

Upon further thought and taking what you posted to be true (I didn't google it in short), doesn't this mean that the possibility of blood test close to fight day is nothing but a demand by Team Floyd? which Team Pac could rightly refuse, the same not being part of "standard protocol" of testing by USADA? The implications of that are mind boggling ...

Well, in short, the "standard protocol" is unique to each sporting event. The USADA is basically just a group that does the testing, but the guideline they follow is based on the World Anti Doping Code. So what is being asked for is not really different than standard protocol at all. The code is a long read, and it's a lot to sift through, but it's clear that the idea of it is to utilize any and all resources in the power of testing procedures to prevent doping.

You can call it a demand by Floyd, because that's what it is. However, demands are always made by all parties involved in these type of fights, we all know that. However, this one is not too unreasonable because essentially it holds the intellectual high ground, even if a part of it is gamesmanship from Floyd. It also puts Manny in a tough situation, because people will always perceive this as him acting su****ious for making such a big deal over the whole situation.

[menoari]

Thanks for the details. The guidelines are mostly conceptual in nature, understandably so as they are meant to apply in general to many sports.

Let me rephrase the question to a more specific instance which I mentioned in my follow up post - Is blood testing, let's say 3 days before the fight in question here, an integral part of "standard protocol"? In other words, can USADA agree to give both fighters a cut off date for blood testing of 3 days before the fight and still confidently say that they are implementing an effective anti doping program for the fight? Let's presume that urine testing is an option during the same period.

From my reading of your posts, there is no universal, one size fits all testing program, hence your statement that -

What type of sample is taken, be it blood, urine, or both, and the structure of when it is appropriate to conduct the in competition and out of competition testing is something that is worked out between the organizations conducting the event, in this case that is Floyd and Manny, and the agency handling the testing, which would be the USADA.

I was under the impression before (from other posts and articles) that to give Pac a cut off date for testing be it 30 days, 5 days, 3 days or what have you would be a violation of USADA testing policy and thus invalidating the testing program.

[menoari]

The thing that negates the OP's entire conspiracy theory is that GBP has agreed to work with somebody outside of the USADA if that is what Arum and Manny want. They just want to ensure that the testing is completely random and, frankly, that makes perfect sense. Random means random, and not when the athlete says he'll do it.

Another thing that the OP fails to point out when reading what exactly the USADA does is that they are an organization that offers "contract testing" in the United States. Which means they can be hired to collect samples and handle the testing, as long as they follow the International Standards for Doping Control, also known as the World Anti Doping Code. So it's not like it's some big conspiracy that GBP and Mayweather picked them. They follow a code and standard for testing that is recognized around the world.

What type of sample is taken, be it blood, urine, or both, and the structure of when it is appropriate to conduct the in competition and out of competition testing is something that is worked out between the organizations conducting the event, in this case that is Floyd and Manny, and the agency handling the testing, which would be the USADA. The World Anti Doping Code is very specific on the fact that both blood and urine samples are to be provided when asked for, and also that the standards that are applied to each sporting event are thoroughly analyzed while creating the unique testing plan. It is also very specific that the tests be conducted in a completely random manner, and with the athlete only getting a one hour window for meeting with the agent that will conduct the test when contacted for random testing.

I had links, but it wouldn't let me post them because I am new, but anybody can go to the USADA's website and see that under the "What We Do" section there is a section on contract testing. You can also do a simple google search for "International Standards for Testing 2009" and the very first link is a PDF of the policy on testing.

Just because some people don't like the source of an idea, in this case Team Mayweather, it does not take away from the validity of the argument. The entire sports world is in need of stricter testing policies and Boxing could do a great service to itself by stepping up it's standards across the board.

Well, in short, the "standard protocol" is unique to each sporting event. The USADA is basically just a group that does the testing, but the guideline they follow is based on the World Anti Doping Code. So what is being asked for is not really different than standard protocol at all. The code is a long read, and it's a lot to sift through, but it's clear that the idea of it is to utilize any and all resources in the power of testing procedures to prevent doping.

You can call it a demand by Floyd, because that's what it is. However, demands are always made by all parties involved in these type of fights, we all know that. However, this one is not too unreasonable because essentially it holds the intellectual high ground, even if a part of it is gamesmanship from Floyd. It also puts Manny in a tough situation, because people will always perceive this as him acting su****ious for making such a big deal over the whole situation.

Agreeing with you on most of the bolded part.

What I find sort of devious was the presentation that any deviation from that demand would be the equivalent of refusing any form of testing. That does not appear to be the case. Personally, I find the whole issue to be more of gamesmanship between the parties or a grand PR scheme to hype the fight. We will see ...

[HighUnderground]

Essentially, my understanding of it is that the athletes are subject to testing at any time. That doesn't mean they will always be tested right before the event, but the idea is that they don't know when the tests are coming.

To answer your question in short, I think it would be a violation of the code to have a cutoff date. However, that is something that would be determined by specific the Anti Doping Organization that is putting together the Test Distribution Plans based on their research. When you read the code, you see that it is written like a living document that is open to be re-evaluated and changed as new information is learned and new trends come into the doping world.

[menoari]

I understand the random requirement and the point that the code is open to changes in response to future events.

What I have yet to see is the Test Distribution Plan of USADA for this particular case, is that available anywhere? The impression I got from what I have been able to find is that Team Floyd is presenting their demand as the equivalent of the Test Distribution Plan by USADA and that any deviation from that would lead to a failure of testing. I could never understand why there can only be 1 way only to implement a PED testing program for this fight.

[HighUnderground]

[/B]

Agreeing with you on most of the bolded part.

What I find sort of devious was the presentation that any deviation from that demand would be the equivalent of refusing any form of testing. That does not appear to be the case. Personally, I find the whole issue to be more of gamesmanship between the parties or a grand PR scheme to hype the fight. We will see ...

I think that presentation is one that is propagated more by bloggers and message boards than really what was said by any of the parties. I don't think anybody actually denies that Manny agreed to some testing, but his reluctance to agree to this particular form of testing is what is raising eyebrows, especially the way he's handled this. I mean, I'm no expert, but not wanting to submit a blood test in the month leading up to the fight is a bit odd. Also, the people around him like Arum, Roach, and Ariza have done a good job making people su****ious. Even if the allegations are completely false and Manny's feelings are hurt, he could fix all of it and look like the bigger man if he just agreed to the testing.

I hope it all gets worked out, but at this point, who know what to believe.

[HighUnderground]

I understand the random requirement and the point that the code is open to changes in response to future events.

What I have yet to see is the Test Distribution Plan of USADA for this particular case, is that available anywhere? The impression I got from what I have been able to find is that Team Floyd is presenting their demand as the equivalent of the Test Distribution Plan by USADA and that any deviation from that would lead to a failure of testing. I could never understand why there can only be 1 way only to implement a PED testing program for this fight.

As for a Test Distribution Plan for this fight, I have not seen that anywhere, and I'm not sure that ALL of that information is something that would be made public right away anyway.

Floyd's side is pretty cut and dry. They want the testing to be random, and that is a reasonable request when you think about it. They have given some flex in their stance, and even agreed to use somebody else instead of the USADA. However, Manny and Arum are playing hardball on this one.