Who is greater? Manny Pacquiao or JCC?

[Calilloyd]

Chavez: Ramirez, Camacho, Taylor

Pacquiao: Cotto, Barrera, Morales

I think its close(no not jus off those 3 wins)...Pacquiao's title wins in various weightclasses get him the nod I think...

Chavez most impressive win was over Edwin Rosario for me. It's close but I'm leaning towards Pacquiao right now.

[ummmid]

for me, pac but this is one of the comparisons i wouldn't mind pac losing. one of the reasons i wasn't really that much of a cotto fan was because i was a huge fan of jcc, he just set the standard too damn high.

jcc was a beast.

pac is a machine.

[bojangles1987]

Pacman. JCC is great, no doubt, but Pac is doing things we simply have not seen.

[marciano207]

Pacquiao is a better fighter and has a better record

[DonTaseMeBrah]

Pacquiao. His wins vs the 3 mexican surefire first ballot hall of famers will hold him well in history. Plus the various titles in so many weight classes put him over chavez.

[HaglerSteelChin]

When it comes to coming up with an all time greatest list it comes down to both opinion and facts. The facts are how many titles won, won-lost record, level of competition, how many weight clases fought etc. The opinion what you give the most weight too. I personally look at alot of criteria in determining greatness and give different points for each achievement. I look at how many Hall of Fame fighters you beat and if they were in their prime? I also give some weight to how well you fought the best. So even if you had a few losses like Juan Laporte you still get points for going the distance with guys like Salvador Sanchez, Nelson, and Kostya Tszyu.

I may rate someone like Camacho slightly higher than Trinidad because Camacho did fight in 7 weight classes with belts in each(a few minor) and in over 90 fights NEVER was knocked out. Even if Tito beat him it was in his 4th weight class as Camacho started as super feather. Camacho did lose to Chavez but he also beat Rosario, Ramirez, Pazienza, Haugen, Mancini etc. I wont count his wins over DUran or SRL as they were both passed their prime. In addition, Tito's first loss happened with BHOP. I dont think it was a major coincidence that Trinidad had to rewrap his gloves after Richardson thought they were excessively wrapped.

[Dondi33O]

JCC by a hair. But Pacquiao isn't done yet. While JCC never tried to gain a weight advantage. He fought straight up.

[BennyST]

No, they're not based on facts dude. If I said "you're an idiot" would that be based on fact or would it be just an an opinion I'd formed? More than likely you're not an idiot, we just had a few crossed wires on here and I came to the conclusion you're not very bright. <--- This is an example, not what I actually think.


I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree. P4P lists = mythical. You can put them in any order you want. I don't agree with Bert Sugar's top 100 ATG list, it's really ****ed up in a lot of places, but I can't say "Bert, you suck, you know nothing about boxing" even though I disagree with it. It's just one man's opinion.

If they're not based on facts, then why is Robinson the consensus GOAT? Why isn't Calzaghe? All opinions, ideas, everything you think is based on facts, or what you think is fact.

Stop being a ****ing douche. Every single opinion you make is based on things to support and make that opinion. An opinion doesn't just jump into your brain without anything to carry the weight of it.

You can and do say **** like "you suck" to people every single day on here for not agreeing with you. You slag off Mayweather supporters for their supposed biased opinions. Never once have I seen you say "that's cool man. It's all just opinion. None of it means anything"

Sugar has his opinion base on having seen all of these fighters actually fight. That's his fact. He can say this guy was better than that guy because I watched them all fight for their whole careers.

Jesus. Maybe you guys really are a bit thick. You can put them in whatever order you want but you would be wrong. Is someone right if they say "Yo, Micky Ward is the GOAT. Pac ****ing sucks and Mayweather has no skill!"? Sure, that's their opinion and it might be based off seeing Micky and thinking he really is the best. That would mean he has not seen Mayweather or Pac though. It is also a stupid opinion and is wrong. There are some facts in the universe you know? Do you think the sky is blue? Is that your opinion? Did Pac beat Cotto or is that just your opinion? No, it is all based on fact. That's what happened and it influenced your mind.

While you make up your own mind, everything you think is based on what actually happens. Facts. Like the fact you think Pac is better because he is a 7 weight champion and just beat Cotto etc. That's why you think he is better. Facts.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

JCC by a hair. But Pacquiao isn't done yet. While JCC never tried to gain a weight advantage. He fought straight up.

agreed...the pernell fight wasn't really at a catchweight of 145...that was just a rumor

[bojangles1987]

JCC by a hair. But Pacquiao isn't done yet. While JCC never tried to gain a weight advantage. He fought straight up.

Pac fought at a catchweight ONCE. Hey, so did Chavez! And got a bulls*** draw out of it!