Pac Named Greatest-Ever Featherweight

[Gutz]

Excellent!

Holy shiet S A M.. I love the new Avatar...:wank:

[Killa_Kali]

Excellent!

oist. who's da chick in your avy? lolz

[Gutz]

oist. who's da chick in your avy? lolz

LOL you notice those bewbs too huh!!1

[dans]

the pac/floyd fight is really 50/50 so we cant really say how it will go. but again, atg rankings are a matter of opinion and opinion says at the moment that he tops floyd. if he loses to floyd, he lost to a better fighter with his legacy still intact.

if he beats floyd decisively in contrast to marquez 1 and 2, that'll be an additional 1m rep points for pac.

i dont have any problem with the "weak titlist" thing. we can always say that floyd took the lineal ww belt from a weak title holder. beating any legit title holder for any legit ABC belt is still an achievement.

It's an achievement, but it's also what most people refer to as cherry picking. Floyd did this himself at 140 with Gatti.

In my mind, if you want respect for winning a title in a division, especially for the division hoppers like Floyd, Manny, and Oscar, fight the best, or at least close to it.

Look at it this way. Let's say Manny wins a 8th division title against Foreman, then retires.

People will look and say "wow, 8 divisions, that's incredible!!!" without looking at how it was actually accomplished. Up until he moved to LW, I have no issues. He had many good and some great wins against quality title holders. However, moving forwardL

5th division - When he moved to LW, he fought the weakest titlist in David Diaz, won and bolted from the division. There's his 5th division. One fight against a guy who should've lost to the washed up Morales that Pac already beat.

6th division - KO over Ricky Hatton. Okay, great win against the undisputed champ of the division. But Hatton had already been beaten by Mayweather, and many already considered Hatton a bust after failing to impress after winning the fight with Tzsyu. Clearly he has no intention of defending that title or facing the other good fighters at 140 (Bradley, Khan etc.) So again, one and done.

7th division - TKO over Cotto. Very impressive. Cotto was considered a top welter and beating him was certainly an accomplishment. However, not only was Cotto NOT the #1 WW at the time, but he was also beaten down by Margarito a year or so before. A man that Mosley went on to destroy. Not only that but Pacquiao's team demanded a catchweight for a CHAMPIONSHIP fight. So whether he was at a disadvantage or not (I think he was fine FTR), Pacquiao didn't win the belt from the champion at the WW limit, Cotto's most comfortable weight.

8th division??? - A proposed match with newly crowned titlist Yuri Foreman. Not Paul Williams, the #1 fighter in the division. Not Sergio Martinez. The mediocre and unimpressive Yuri Foreman. And to add to that Roach has said he would like that fight around 150 pounds. So another catchweight and another weak titlist. And again it would be one and done. He wouldn't defend the title, and wouldn't entertain fights with the real cream of the crop at 154.

So that's it right there. 8 divisions. Impressive? Very. Unheard of? Undoubtedly. But is there more to the story? Of course.

Divisions and title claims are one thing. Actually beating and fighting the best in your division is another. Not since Manny was at 130 has he done this. Again, he's still an ATG no matter what, and his status as one of the top 10 or 15 (at least) is secure. But putting all this value into snatching titles and moving is overrated.

[Killa_Kali]

It's an achievement, but it's also what most people refer to as cherry picking. Floyd did this himself at 140 with Gatti.

In my mind, if you want respect for winning a title in a division, especially for the division hoppers like Floyd, Manny, and Oscar, fight the best, or at least close to it.

Look at it this way. Let's say Manny wins a 8th division title against Foreman, then retires.

People will look and say "wow, 8 divisions, that's incredible!!!" without looking at how it was actually accomplished. Up until he moved to LW, I have no issues. He had many good and some great wins against quality title holders. However, moving forwardL

5th division - When he moved to LW, he fought the weakest titlist in David Diaz, won and bolted from the division. There's his 5th division. One fight against a guy who should've lost to the washed up Morales that Pac already beat.

6th division - KO over Ricky Hatton. Okay, great win against the undisputed champ of the division. But Hatton had already been beaten by Mayweather, and many already considered Hatton a bust after failing to impress after winning the fight with Tzsyu. Clearly he has no intention of defending that title or facing the other good fighters at 140 (Bradley, Khan etc.) So again, one and done.

7th division - TKO over Cotto. Very impressive. Cotto was considered a top welter and beating him was certainly an accomplishment. However, not only was Cotto NOT the #1 WW at the time, but he was also beaten down by Margarito a year or so before. A man that Mosley went on to destroy. Not only that but Pacquiao's team demanded a catchweight for a CHAMPIONSHIP fight. So whether he was at a disadvantage or not (I think he was fine FTR), Pacquiao didn't win the belt from the champion at the WW limit, Cotto's most comfortable weight.

8th division??? - A proposed match with newly crowned titlist Yuri Foreman. Not Paul Williams, the #1 fighter in the division. Not Sergio Martinez. The mediocre and unimpressive Yuri Foreman. And to add to that Roach has said he would like that fight around 150 pounds. So another catchweight and another weak titlist. And again it would be one and done. He wouldn't defend the title, and wouldn't entertain fights with the real cream of the crop at 154.

So that's it right there. 8 divisions. Impressive? Very. Unheard of? Undoubtedly. But is there more to the story? Of course.

Divisions and title claims are one thing. Actually beating and fighting the best in your division is another. Not since Manny was at 130 has he done this. Again, he's still an ATG no matter what, and his status as one of the top 10 or 15 (at least) is secure. But putting all this value into snatching titles and moving is overrated.

Of course, weight classes and the belt-sanctioning organizations aren't what they once were. But that's not Pacquiao's fault, IMHO. You fight what's put in front of you.

Diaz may not be a win for the books but the quality of the hatton and the cotto victories should not be doubted. hatton was undefeated at 140. cotto was a guy in a list that floyd ducked for ages.

a potential eighth title against the weakest current 154 champion is an option if floyd does the unthinkable and cops out of the negotiations.

[dans]

Of course, weight classes and the belt-sanctioning organizations aren't what they once were. But that's not Pacquiao's fault, IMHO. You fight what's put in front of you.

Diaz may not be a win for the books but the quality of the hatton and the cotto victories should not be doubted. hatton was undefeated at 140. cotto was a guy in a list that floyd ducked for ages.

a potential eighth title against the weakest current 154 champion is an option if floyd does the unthinkable and cops out of the negotiations.

As for Diaz at 135, Pacquiao could've fought Campbell or Casamayor. Both would've been better.

My only point is that the whole "X number of divisions" claims are overrated in general.

Floyd has 5, but only fought 3 times at 140 and never beat the best. He also only fought once at 154, and beat DLH (debatable if he was the best at 154).

De La Hoya has 6, but at 160 he won a title in a disputed decision (Sturm) and lost in his 2nd and last fight at 160 against Hopkins.

Manny has 7, but only fought at 135 once against a weak titlist, and once at 140 against Hatton (who was already considered a bust by many). If he adds 154 and a win over Foreman, that will make 8 divisions, but 3 of which he never beat the best or stayed long enough.

Honestly looking at it, IMO De La Hoya has the meatiest claim in the "X number of divisions" category. He's the only one that won AND defended his title in all those divisions.

Floyd and Manny did not.

[Chups]

Well when it comes to cherry picking title holders...Pacquiao has only 1....and that's David Diaz. Mayweather has at least two, Gatti and Baldomir.

[dans]

Well when it comes to cherry picking title holders...Pacquiao has only 1....and that's David Diaz. Mayweather has at least two, Gatti and Baldomir.

I don't see how Baldomir is cherry picking. Many people wanted that fight at the time and Baldomir had not lost in almost 9 years.

It's easy to look back and say Baldomir was cherry picking, but it's not the truth, because AT THE TIME, Baldomir was the right fight and the lineal champion.

[Horus]

IMO Pacquiao wasnt a better Featherweight than Prince Nassem.

[Konstantin]

Look at it this way. Let's say Manny wins a 8th division title against Foreman, then retires.

People will look and say "wow, 8 divisions, that's incredible!!!" without looking at how it was actually accomplished. Up until he moved to LW, I have no issues. He had many good and some great wins against quality title holders. However, moving forwardL


KO over Ricky Hatton.
TKO over Cotto. Very impressive.

So that's it right there. 8 divisions. Impressive? Very. Unheard of? Undoubtedly. But is there more to the story? Of course.

Divisions and title claims are one thing. Actually beating and fighting the best in your division is another. Not since Manny was at 130 has he done this. Again, he's still an ATG no matter what, and his status as one of the top 10 or 15 (at least) is secure. But putting all this value into snatching titles and moving is overrated.

Well you just said he fought the best at 140 and he will have fought 2 out of the top three welterweights in March. So yeh, I would say he has fought the best the majority of the time.

And as for, "wow 8 divisions it's amazing but there's more of a story behind it."

It's the same as your claim that SRR fought 10 HOF. Beating 10 HOF is amazing but there's a story behind that too. Some of those were smaller than him. Some of those fighters wouldn't be in the HOF if they were fighting today.

And Manny can be ranked higher than Floyd even if he gets beat. Duran is ranked higher than the other big 3 of his time despite losing to every single one of them.