Does Marquez beating Pac twice then getting destroyed by Floyd affect Pacs Legacy?

[rocky_balboa23]

I always assume that most people on here are just a tad "extra" and hyperbolic in the way they write. Not you, of course.

For example, people will say "Oscar beat Floyd". But when you ask for their scorecards, they can't defend it. And they can't explain why Floyd landed 100-ish more punches.

The very best you can do for Oscar is to give him five rounds. At best.

Well sometimes the crowd will influence the way you score the fight. it was, i think, the case when DLH fought Money MAy. the crowd in the venue were going nuts everytime DLH backs Money up. floyd not being an offensive fighter did not help as well. i think it was round 9 when I realized that Money was controlling the fight. He was already hitting DLH with clean shots and the punches of DLH no longer have that sting. and for the prediction of Money-Pac, Money has a chance of shutting up the Pacman but there is also a very good chance that pac KOs Money May. And as a Pacman fan, i would favor Pacman in this fight to prove once and for all that he is the best of this generation/

[GG Marquez]

PBF carried JMM to a decision. He did not destroy him.

.

Did Joe calzaghe destroy Lacy?

I do not feel that a KO or stoppage is synonymous with a dominating decision or destruction. It takes more boxing ability to dominate an elite opponent for 36 minutes than it does to blow the guy out early. Thus, why I think that Corrales remains FMJ's signature performance, and Winky over Tito was probably the best display of boxing in this past decade.

It is damn hard to win 36 minutes off a guy.

[jrosales13]

Well does it?

When did JMM beat Pac?

[S A M U R A I]

That is a dominant round, of the first round they fought. After that, Pac scored 1 KD in the next 23 rounds, and lost most of those 23 rounds. True or false?

I wouldn't exactly call that dominant.

Blah. I answered your question already. "AT TIMES". Which is correct.

If you think I'm gonna start arguing back and forth about Pacquiao-Marquez fights again, you're wrong. I ain't getting into a topic that's been beaten to death 40,000 times already.



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[Sin City]

A bit. These fights were at different weights and Marquez was not experienced at 145.
But there is that nagging notion that a guy Floyd domianted went life and death with Pac doesnt look too great.

pacquiao demolishing mayweathers two best wins is far worst then mayweather dominating a blown up maequez.

[jrosales13]

Still, the point remains that people can consider it either way. By contrast, Mayweather completely dominated Marquez.

So, if May dominates Marquez (who pac struggled with), and May beats Pac, then Pac will be left without a reasonable claim as 'best of his era".

Just addressing the topic question.

It really doesn't work that way. Some historians have Duran over Leonard all time. Is an era so you have to look at the whole body of work of that era. Pac is the one even if he losses to Floyd.

[GG Marquez]

Well sometimes the crowd will influence the way you score the fight. it was, i think, the case when DLH fought Money MAy. the crowd in the venue were going nuts everytime DLH backs Money up. floyd not being an offensive fighter did not help as well. i think it was round 9 when I realized that Money was controlling the fight. He was already hitting DLH with clean shots and the punches of DLH no longer have that sting. and for the prediction of Money-Pac, Money has a chance of shutting up the Pacman but there is also a very good chance that pac KOs Money May. And as a Pacman fan, i would favor Pacman in this fight to prove once and for all that he is the best of this generation/

I asked myself if Pac can KO Floyd...and I just don't see that.

Take away the Hatton bout for a moment. That was a singular punch, on the button against a guy who was built for that, and ******.

When you look at Pac's performances, he went the distance with MAB, couldn't get JMM out, he got Diaz in 9, Oscar in 9, and Cotto in 12 (should have been stopped in 9). What that tells me is that Pac at 140/147 is really more of an accumulative puncher with good power. He never stung Oscar. He put Cotto down 2x, but neither were fight-ending type shots. So, I think he will have to put some punishment on Floyd in order to get Floyd out.

Because, by all indications, Floyd has a pretty good chin. If nothing else, mayweather would have taken a flash KD against Genaro / corrales/ castillo / castillo/ chavez / manfredy / gatti / judah / delahoya / hatton. All of those guys are good punchers in their weight classes. Even the best fighters take a flash KD every once in awhile.

So, knowing that Floyd has top-tier (ATF-level) defense, combined with a good chin, and Pac has been going kinda deep into his fights, I see this fight going the distance.

Given that the fights where Pac went the distance were very close or losses(Marquez, Morales, etc), and given that Floyd gains momentum and typically pitches shut-outs from rounds 5-12, I see this fight as a comfortable decision by FMJ.

Stylistically, Floyd is not a left-hand dominant fighter like hatton, DLH and Cotto. There is no single punch or move that you can say that FMJ is vulnerable to. And he makes great adjustments during fights. Very high boxing IQ. From watching them fight, and from listening to them after fights, it is obvious that Floyd is the smarter fighter, and Pac has more physical gifts.

How Pac can win this is to become more balanced, and to be able to create offense while going backwards. Also, when Pac makes mistakes, his speed advantage overcomes that mistake. For example, look how wide he throws at times. But he is sooo much faster than DLH/Hatton/Diaz that he can get his punch there even though it took a wider arc. He can't do that to FMJ. Floyd will justthrow a short, quick hook, or "hookercut" or right lead off the back foot. So, pac has to take a bit off the fastball to make sure he gets it over the plate.

That is how I see the fight: 116-112 or 117-11 FMJ.

[GG Marquez]

It really doesn't work that way. Some historians have Duran over Leonard all time. Is an era so you have to look at the whole body of work of that era. Pac is the one even if he losses to Floyd.

Well, that is easy to do since Duran has a legitimate, unquestioned win over SRL. Would that be the case if SRL had beaten Duran in 1?

Remember, FMJ was ranked above Pac in every year except 2008/2009. The years where FMJ was inactive. If FMJ beats Pac in 2010, it starts to look very Bulls/Rockets-ish.

[jrosales13]

Well, that is easy to do since Duran has a legitimate, unquestioned win over SRL. Would that be the case if SRL had beaten Duran in 1?

Remember, FMJ was ranked above Pac in every year except 2008/2009. The years where FMJ was inactive. If FMJ beats Pac in 2010, it starts to look very Bulls/Rockets-ish.

Leonard beat Duran twice and in one of them made him quit. Leonard stopped Wilfredo Benitez and Benitez beat Duran. Leonard stopped Hearns, Hearns Destroyed Duran. Leonard beat Hagler, Hagler beat Duran.

Another example Benitez and Duran. Everybody ranks Duran as the greater fighter. Both beat Palomino, both lossed to Leonard, both lossed to Hearns, and Benitez beat Duran. But, Duran is the greater fighter.

Head-to-head match-ups does not decide who the best of the era is. Remember Pac will win 3 fighter of the year this passed decade. When was the last time a fighter won 3 fighter of years award in one decade? Is not like Pac just came out of nowhere. He was a champ back in 1999 just like Floyd. Just cuz nobody saw him can't take away from that accomplishment bro. He then moved up 3 weightclasses and beats arguably the best in that division in Ledwaba. That was back when 2001? So he has been doing this for awhile. And, everything after 2002 IMO Pac resume is just so much better than Floyd that a head-to-head match-up will not decide it.

[rocky_balboa23]

I asked myself if Pac can KO Floyd...and I just don't see that.

Take away the Hatton bout for a moment. That was a singular punch, on the button against a guy who was built for that, and ******.

When you look at Pac's performances, he went the distance with MAB, couldn't get JMM out, he got Diaz in 9, Oscar in 9, and Cotto in 12 (should have been stopped in 9). What that tells me is that Pac at 140/147 is really more of an accumulative puncher with good power. He never stung Oscar. He put Cotto down 2x, but neither were fight-ending type shots. So, I think he will have to put some punishment on Floyd in order to get Floyd out.

Because, by all indications, Floyd has a pretty good chin. If nothing else, mayweather would have taken a flash KD against Genaro / corrales/ castillo / castillo/ chavez / manfredy / gatti / judah / delahoya / hatton. All of those guys are good punchers in their weight classes. Even the best fighters take a flash KD every once in awhile.

So, knowing that Floyd has top-tier (ATF-level) defense, combined with a good chin, and Pac has been going kinda deep into his fights, I see this fight going the distance.

Given that the fights where Pac went the distance were very close or losses(Marquez, Morales, etc), and given that Floyd gains momentum and typically pitches shut-outs from rounds 5-12, I see this fight as a comfortable decision by FMJ.

Stylistically, Floyd is not a left-hand dominant fighter like hatton, DLH and Cotto. There is no single punch or move that you can say that FMJ is vulnerable to. And he makes great adjustments during fights. Very high boxing IQ. From watching them fight, and from listening to them after fights, it is obvious that Floyd is the smarter fighter, and Pac has more physical gifts.

How Pac can win this is to become more balanced, and to be able to create offense while going backwards. Also, when Pac makes mistakes, his speed advantage overcomes that mistake. For example, look how wide he throws at times. But he is sooo much faster than DLH/Hatton/Diaz that he can get his punch there even though it took a wider arc. He can't do that to FMJ. Floyd will justthrow a short, quick hook, or "hookercut" or right lead off the back foot. So, pac has to take a bit off the fastball to make sure he gets it over the plate.

That is how I see the fight: 116-112 or 117-11 FMJ.

well i got pac on this one by KO if it happens. ill put all my epoints on pac KO if the fight is officially made.