Toney the Phoney

[enadeus]

Yea my fault. Emmanuel Stewart. I keep getting the two names mixed up constantely for some reason.

[Neuraxis]

You know who'd really deserve a shot? What about Luan Krasniqi or even Samil Sam? I didn't want to defend Toney and I like Wladimir but you can't blame the audience for being a little pissed after Wladimirs loss to Brewster.

And btw. I was more reffering to how the bout against Williamson went. He won a TD after 5 rounds and the scores were split. That's not exactly what comes to my mind if I think of a win that sets up a title shot.

I'd like to see Sam rematch Gomez now that he is more highly regarded than Gomez is. If Krasniqi beats Whitaker he will fight the winner of Brewster vs. Golota. If you saw the TOS fight you know that there is no way that TOS was winning that fight.

[Dude]

It opened my eyes as to how you are simply justifying Toney as a "legitimate contender", which I never said he was not. All I said was, he was equal to or less deserving than Wlad.

Yes, right and then I pointed at the two losses in his last five fights and you stated that you believe that Sanders and Brewster would knock out Toney as well.

But that right there is the difference. Wlad has been knocked out badly. Toney hasn't. Wlad made some unpleasing excuses. Toney hasn't. Wlad had the talent to be an all time great HW. Toney hasn't. Doesn't matter what you think if it never happened. If title shots were given on fighters abilities and potentials we'd have one champion and boxing'd be televised live on national TV...

[Dude]

I'd like to see Sam rematch Gomez now that he is more highly regarded than Gomez is. If Krasniqi beats Whitaker he will fight the winner of Brewster vs. Golota. If you saw the TOS fight you know that there is no way that TOS was winning that fight.

There's always a way in HW boxing. There was no way Brewster was winning until Wladimir punched himself out. It just wasn't a convincing win. That's it. I'm not trying to cheat Wladimir out of earned credit. He'll climb the ladder once more and he'll get another chance.

I'd like to see Sam fighting anyone but Vitali if he turns up in the shape in which he fought Bahktov.

And are you sure about Krasniqi? That sounds like a great chance for him.

[Run]

But that right there is the difference. Wlad has been knocked out badly. Toney hasn't.

You are bringing light another issue:

Their Chin. Toney does have one of the best chins in boxing, but that alone, his being able to get away with eating leather occasionally at lower weights......will not cut it. If you are looking at "Total losses" Wlad has 3. Toney has 4. I do realize Toney has had the longer career....and that is another issue in assesing his qualifications for being a contender.

Wlad has fought at heavyweight, and despite being "knocked out" he still far succeeds Toney in credentials at this weight. He is after all.....a real heavyweight.



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[Dude]

You are bringing light another issue:

Their Chin. Toney does have one of the best chins in boxing, but that alone, his being able to get away with eating leather occasionally at lower weights......will not cut it. If you are looking at "Total losses" Wlad has 3. Toney has 4. I do realize Toney has had the longer career....and that is another issue in assesing his qualifications for being a contender.

Wlad has fought at heavyweight, and despite being "knocked out" he still far succeeds Toney in credentials at this weight. He is after all.....a real heavyweight.

According to your post Toneys accomplishments don't mean as much as Wladimirs because he has a better chin. I dearly hope I just misinterpreted that.

And well, what had Jones Jr. done to get a shot at the HW title? What had Spinks done to get a shot? What had Tunney done? It's not like you start at zero again once you enter a higher weight class is it?

[Neuraxis]

There's always a way in HW boxing. There was no way Brewster was winning until Wladimir punched himself out. It just wasn't a convincing win. That's it. I'm not trying to cheat Wladimir out of earned credit. He'll climb the ladder once more and he'll get another chance.

I'd like to see Sam fighting anyone but Vitali if he turns up in the shape in which he fought Bahktov.

And are you sure about Krasniqi? That sounds like a great chance for him.

Yup the Krasniqi vs. Whitaker fight is a WBO heavyweight title eliminator.

[Dude]

Yup the Krasniqi vs. Whitaker fight is a WBO heavyweight title eliminator.

Thx pal. I didn't know that. Makes me feel happy for Luan as I think he really earned this chance.

[Run]

According to your post Toneys accomplishments don't mean as much as Wladimirs because he has a better chin. I dearly hope I just misinterpreted that.

You were the one who said: "Toney was not brutally knocked out". I responded by saying that Wladimir, though has been knocked out "brutally" is still more qualified for contender status.

Dont twist what I said around. I simply mentioned "chin". Which is relevant in talking about knockout losses. Toney has more losses than Wladimir kiltchko as a fighter as well, and Wlad's accomplishments supercede Toney's at this weight.



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[Dude]

You were the one who said: "Toney was not brutally knocked out". I responded by saying that Wladimir, though has been knocked out "brutally" is still more qualified for contender status.

Dont twist what I said around. I simply mentioned "chin". Which is relevant in talking about knockout losses. Toney has more losses than Wladimir kiltchko as a fighter as well, and Wlad's accomplishments supercede Toney's at this weight.

Aight, so Wladimir can get knocked out without losing his contender status because he hasn't got the chin other contenders have? You do realize that chin is one of the more important abilities that are required in boxing and especially in HW boxing?

And, yes, Wlad's accomplishments do supercede Toney's at this weight. But they do supercede Toney's accomplishment in both directions, positive and negative. Btw. Glen Johnsons accomplishments supercede Hopkins' accomplishments at Light HW. Does that mean that Hopkins should start building a record if he decides to move up in weight?