Comments Thread For: The one that got away for Roy Jones Jnr wouldn?t have done so today

[Coverdale]

Roy is implying Dariusz was the only problem here when they both were. The closest it came was when HBO agreed to put up the money for a two-fight deal which brought Dariusz to the US for a showcase followed by a Roy fight. I gather the lack of a contractual guarantee of a Roy fight (it was simply implied) caused team DM to baulk.

That's when HBO began pushing for Jones - Ruiz because they were fed up of his gimme mandatory defences against the likes of Glen Kelly.

[BoxerWriter]

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“setting aside any misgivings about where the money was coming from to make it all happen and why it was being spent etc”.
What the hell are you talking about? Boxers are being pays money that they should have been paid by Western Promoters.
Soccer players and golfers are flocking to Saudi and are getting paid.

That’s money that’s coming from Oil revenue. It’s not stolen nor is it it controlled by corrupt corporations like it is in the US and UK. So your “misgivings” stems from prejudice or jealousy.

I think it's pretty obvious what I'm talking about. No one's arguing about the benefits the Saudi money has brought to boxing - the right fights being made and boxers being better paid etc (with less being stolen from them by corrupt middlemen and institutions etc) and no one is saying that the rest of the sport (both now and in years past) wasn't rife with corruption) - all I was saying is that as fans and human beings, you also have to separate the sports-washing agenda from your love and enjoyment of the sport. I was simply acknowledging that debate - not expressing any personal views - before moving onto my main point. Maybe it doesn't bother you and that's fine. Each to their own. I've chosen not to really dwell on it because of how much I love boxing (and I'm the first to admit how better things have been since they got involved in the sport) but I haven't completely erased the knowledge from my mind. I totally get that the money that has gone into the sport in decades past was almost definitely morally compromised too - we've all heard the stories of the mob running Vegas etc and every event Don King ever put on was probably funded in the most dubious ways possible - so yeah, it's nothing new. It's definitely not prejudice or jealously. Like I said, I was just acknowledging the debate. I have comparable misgivings about the corrupt corporations in the US and UK that you mention as well as the sanctioning bodies, promoters etc. I was simply saying that regardless of the concerns some people have, the Saudi revolution was just that - a revolution and a positive one - at least for the first 12-18 months, but this year seems to have fallen flat all of a sudden and it's having a ripple effect on promoters worldwide. I'm hoping it's just a temporary lull. Certainly the November 22 card is promising, but I'm surprised we still haven't had an undercard announcement for Canelo-Crawford as one example. I know that fight sells itself, but if had happened in the first wave of the Saudi revolution, we would have had a stacked undercard of 50-50 fights before the main event. On a similar note, the undercard for Usyk-Dubois 2 (which was a Queensberry promotion rather than Riyadh or Sela was atrocious too). I'm probably more concerned about the ripple effect elsewhere (as evidenced by the Usyk-Dubois 2 card and others) because if the promoters at home start hit hard times and the TV networks who have backed boxing for years turn their backs, we could enter a bit of a wilderness with only a few big marquee events throughout the year to look forward to. I hope that's not the case and we get back to the quality and quantity we had last year (and leading up to that). As I said in my previous message, the amazing run boxing has had - almost entirely due to the Saudi influx - has probably spoiled us as fans. Maybe I'm just being greedy!

[Oregonian]

I think it's pretty obvious what I'm talking about. No one's arguing about the benefits the Saudi money has brought to boxing - the right fights being made and boxers being better paid etc (with less being stolen from them by corrupt middlemen and institutions etc) and no one is saying that the rest of the sport (both now and in years past) wasn't rife with corruption) - all I was saying is that as fans and human beings, you also have to separate the sports-washing agenda from your love and enjoyment of the sport. I was simply acknowledging that debate - not expressing any personal views - before moving onto my main point. Maybe it doesn't bother you and that's fine. Each to their own. I've chosen not to really dwell on it because of how much I love boxing (and I'm the first to admit how better things have been since they got involved in the sport) but I haven't completely erased the knowledge from my mind. I totally get that the money that has gone into the sport in decades past was almost definitely morally compromised too - we've all heard the stories of the mob running Vegas etc and every event Don King ever put on was probably funded in the most dubious ways possible - so yeah, it's nothing new. It's definitely not prejudice or jealously. Like I said, I was just acknowledging the debate. I have comparable misgivings about the corrupt corporations in the US and UK that you mention as well as the sanctioning bodies, promoters etc. I was simply saying that regardless of the concerns some people have, the Saudi revolution was just that - a revolution and a positive one - at least for the first 12-18 months, but this year seems to have fallen flat all of a sudden and it's having a ripple effect on promoters worldwide. I'm hoping it's just a temporary lull. Certainly the November 22 card is promising, but I'm surprised we still haven't had an undercard announcement for Canelo-Crawford as one example. I know that fight sells itself, but if had happened in the first wave of the Saudi revolution, we would have had a stacked undercard of 50-50 fights before the main event. On a similar note, the undercard for Usyk-Dubois 2 (which was a Queensberry promotion rather than Riyadh or Sela was atrocious too). I'm probably more concerned about the ripple effect elsewhere (as evidenced by the Usyk-Dubois 2 card and others) because if the promoters at home start hit hard times and the TV networks who have backed boxing for years turn their backs, we could enter a bit of a wilderness with only a few big marquee events throughout the year to look forward to. I hope that's not the case and we get back to the quality and quantity we had last year (and leading up to that). As I said in my previous message, the amazing run boxing has had - almost entirely due to the Saudi influx - has probably spoiled us as fans. Maybe I'm just being greedy!

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I couldn’t agree with you more. Thank you for the detailed response.
My take is very simple, any country that commits any kind of atrocities or sponsors global violence gets sanctioned by the US and UK. Meanwhile, those two countries with their history (past and present) have never been sanctioned by anyone so whenever I hear Westerners speak of Saudi or Russia in those terms, I just remind them to look in the mirror. We’ve done worse.

[richardt]

Roy is implying Dariusz was the only problem here when they both were. The closest it came was when HBO agreed to put up the money for a two-fight deal which brought Dariusz to the US for a showcase followed by a Roy fight. I gather the lack of a contractual guarantee of a Roy fight (it was simply implied) caused team DM to baulk.

That's when HBO began pushing for Jones - Ruiz because they were fed up of his gimme mandatory defences against the likes of Glen Kelly.

Not true regarding with Roy being part of the problem! It was a one-sided failure due entirely to Klaus Peter Kohl on many occasions.

I followed every single thing, every single day regarding those two; every article, every word spoken about this.

Little known facts:

1. Murad Muhammad went to Germany to negotiate a fight in Germany between the two and DM's promoter and Universum head Klaus Peter Kohl wanted to pay DM double what they were offering Jones. Jones was being offered the usual 5Mill he normally makes, DM was to get either 8Mill or 10Mill.

2. DM was scheduled to fight Telesco on ESPN to build his brand in the US and Marty Mulcahy even showed the scheduling of the fight on his fight schedule on fight news dot com. DM pulled out because there was not enough money. This was during the time when Telesco was on a major roll on ESPN.

3. DM was offered a co main event on HBO but declined due to the money.

4. Klaus Peter Kohl was often unavailable for phone calls, this fact was documented through research by fight news dot com.

An article:

In 2001, Roy's advisor Brad Jacobs, met with Kerry Davis VP for HBO, and they tried desperately to make the fight. All they heard was crickets.

Peter Kohl who was DM's advisor was never available to sit down and discuss terms. He was also never available via phone, and he wouldn't even name a figure to get the ball rolling.

HBO also proposed the idea of a double header to hype the fight. A lot of U.S. fans had hardly seen DM fight, so HBO wanted to put both fighters on the same bill, to stir interest in a fight.

This was turned down by Kohl.

If DM and Kohl had been serious about a fight, they never would have turned down that opportunity.

Murad Muhammad gave an interview in 2003, and he said that DM was asking for a $6M purse, and he was making between $1-1.5M per fight in Germany.

According to a recent interview with Roy from June only a few years ago, HBO actually offered him DM $5M, and he turned it down.

All you have to do, is go and look at DM's resume, to see how serious he was about fighting the likes of Roy, Tarver and Harding etc. He never left his comfort zone in Germany. He was happy defending his WBO belt for decent money against C class, even fighters which had already been beaten easily by Roy.

If DM and Kohl had wanted Roy bad enough, they'd have agreed to the HBO double header, which was a great idea to market a superfight, perfect buildup like HBO often did back in the day, and then afterwards they'd have had a superfight.

Instead, team DM turned down the opportunity - to fight Hall, Harmon and De Grandis instead.

That's how bad they wanted Roy. Not.

They turned down $5M for Roy, to finally fight Joey De Grandis for $1-1.5M.

DM was all talk. His resume tells you what his intentions were. The best fighter in the world shouldn't have had to have gone to Germany in 2001, ESPECIALLY based on being the victim of the worst robbery in the HISTORY of the Olympics the last time he was in front of foreign judges in a foreign country getting flat out robbed in Korea. Jones was PFP which overshadows a division ranking of DM. PFP #1 is clearly A side.

[djtmal]

———-
Selective outrage much?

How did you leave out Manny waiting to fight a washed up Mosley, and Margarito? Both were coming off spectacular losses.
Where were all those “past their prime” in 2004, 2005, and 2006? Why didn’t they fight Floyd then? Oscar, Mosley and PAC were all available. Why didn’t they drop to 140 or 135 to fight Floyd?

Margarito was available and was calling Floyd out back then, or is that when Floyd's hands was hurtin

[The Big Dunce]

———-
Selective outrage much?

How did you leave out Manny waiting to fight a washed up Mosley, and Margarito? Both were coming off spectacular losses.
Where were all those “past their prime” in 2004, 2005, and 2006? Why didn’t they fight Floyd then? Oscar, Mosley and PAC were all available. Why didn’t they drop to 140 or 135 to fight Floyd?

Margarito wasn't washed up. Floyd dodged Mosley when Shane asked him for a fight at 135. Floyd also dodged prime Cotto, Pac, Casamayor, Freitas, Harris, Wright, Martinez, Tszyu, Williams, Forrest, the list goes on.

[Oregonian]

Margarito was available and was calling Floyd out back then, or is that when Floyd's hands was hurtin

——-
So Margarito was ready to drop to 135 in 2004 to fight Floyd? Or to 140 in 2005 to fight Floyd?
What about PAC, Mosley and Oscar? A question you ignored so I am asking again - Where were they in 2004, 2005, 2006?
Mosley actually turned down Floyd in 2006 because he had to go get his teeth “fixed”. You didn’t know that?

And when the Oscar fight happened, guess what Oscar demanded as the A side? Yes, that’s right, Oscar was so sure of himself that he made sure he got a smaller ring, smaller gloves, 154 Ibs weight with rehydration clause for Floyd to not be under 150 Ibs, his favorite ref, his own judges and the lion share of the purse.
Everything stacked for him to win because Floyd ducked him in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006 when z Floyd was at 135 & 140.

[Coverdale]

Not true regarding with Roy being part of the problem! It was a one-sided failure due entirely to Klaus Peter Kohl on many occasions.

I followed every single thing, every single day regarding those two; every article, every word spoken about this.

Little known facts:

1. Murad Muhammad went to Germany to negotiate a fight in Germany between the two and DM's promoter and Universum head Klaus Peter Kohl wanted to pay DM double what they were offering Jones. Jones was being offered the usual 5Mill he normally makes, DM was to get either 8Mill or 10Mill.

2. DM was scheduled to fight Telesco on ESPN to build his brand in the US and Marty Mulcahy even showed the scheduling of the fight on his fight schedule on fight news dot com. DM pulled out because there was not enough money. This was during the time when Telesco was on a major roll on ESPN.

3. DM was offered a co main event on HBO but declined due to the money.

4. Klaus Peter Kohl was often unavailable for phone calls, this fact was documented through research by fight news dot com.

An article:

In 2001, Roy's advisor Brad Jacobs, met with Kerry Davis VP for HBO, and they tried desperately to make the fight. All they heard was crickets.

Peter Kohl who was DM's advisor was never available to sit down and discuss terms. He was also never available via phone, and he wouldn't even name a figure to get the ball rolling.

HBO also proposed the idea of a double header to hype the fight. A lot of U.S. fans had hardly seen DM fight, so HBO wanted to put both fighters on the same bill, to stir interest in a fight.

This was turned down by Kohl.

If DM and Kohl had been serious about a fight, they never would have turned down that opportunity.

Murad Muhammad gave an interview in 2003, and he said that DM was asking for a $6M purse, and he was making between $1-1.5M per fight in Germany.

According to a recent interview with Roy from June only a few years ago, HBO actually offered him DM $5M, and he turned it down.

All you have to do, is go and look at DM's resume, to see how serious he was about fighting the likes of Roy, Tarver and Harding etc. He never left his comfort zone in Germany. He was happy defending his WBO belt for decent money against C class, even fighters which had already been beaten easily by Roy.

If DM and Kohl had wanted Roy bad enough, they'd have agreed to the HBO double header, which was a great idea to market a superfight, perfect buildup like HBO often did back in the day, and then afterwards they'd have had a superfight.

Instead, team DM turned down the opportunity - to fight Hall, Harmon and De Grandis instead.

That's how bad they wanted Roy. Not.

They turned down $5M for Roy, to finally fight Joey De Grandis for $1-1.5M.

DM was all talk. His resume tells you what his intentions were. The best fighter in the world shouldn't have had to have gone to Germany in 2001, ESPECIALLY based on being the victim of the worst robbery in the HISTORY of the Olympics the last time he was in front of foreign judges in a foreign country getting flat out robbed in Korea. Jones was PFP which overshadows a division ranking of DM. PFP #1 is clearly A side.

What was the calculation Team DM was making in this situation? That they could make more money over the long term defending the WBO against lesser opponents?

When you say you read every article, do you mean you read everything in the English language media which came primarily from US sources?

[Oregonian]

What was the calculation Team DM was making in this situation? That they could make more money over the long term defending the WBO against lesser opponents?

When you say you read every article, do you mean you read everything in the English language media which came primarily from US sources?

————
Are you disagreeing with the historical narrative he wrote? It appears you are trying to be petty by how you’re phrasing your question. It can easily be assumed that he’s probably talking about verifiable select mainstream sources.

But but but … I had never heard of DM until the “ducking” stories started popping up. A guy who only fought in Germany against no-hopes including guys that Roy beat easily was the guy Roy avoided? That logic just falls short.

[Oregonian]

Not true regarding with Roy being part of the problem! It was a one-sided failure due entirely to Klaus Peter Kohl on many occasions.

I followed every single thing, every single day regarding those two; every article, every word spoken about this.

Little known facts:

1. Murad Muhammad went to Germany to negotiate a fight in Germany between the two and DM's promoter and Universum head Klaus Peter Kohl wanted to pay DM double what they were offering Jones. Jones was being offered the usual 5Mill he normally makes, DM was to get either 8Mill or 10Mill.

2. DM was scheduled to fight Telesco on ESPN to build his brand in the US and Marty Mulcahy even showed the scheduling of the fight on his fight schedule on fight news dot com. DM pulled out because there was not enough money. This was during the time when Telesco was on a major roll on ESPN.

3. DM was offered a co main event on HBO but declined due to the money.

4. Klaus Peter Kohl was often unavailable for phone calls, this fact was documented through research by fight news dot com.

An article:

In 2001, Roy's advisor Brad Jacobs, met with Kerry Davis VP for HBO, and they tried desperately to make the fight. All they heard was crickets.

Peter Kohl who was DM's advisor was never available to sit down and discuss terms. He was also never available via phone, and he wouldn't even name a figure to get the ball rolling.

HBO also proposed the idea of a double header to hype the fight. A lot of U.S. fans had hardly seen DM fight, so HBO wanted to put both fighters on the same bill, to stir interest in a fight.

This was turned down by Kohl.

If DM and Kohl had been serious about a fight, they never would have turned down that opportunity.

Murad Muhammad gave an interview in 2003, and he said that DM was asking for a $6M purse, and he was making between $1-1.5M per fight in Germany.

According to a recent interview with Roy from June only a few years ago, HBO actually offered him DM $5M, and he turned it down.

All you have to do, is go and look at DM's resume, to see how serious he was about fighting the likes of Roy, Tarver and Harding etc. He never left his comfort zone in Germany. He was happy defending his WBO belt for decent money against C class, even fighters which had already been beaten easily by Roy.

If DM and Kohl had wanted Roy bad enough, they'd have agreed to the HBO double header, which was a great idea to market a superfight, perfect buildup like HBO often did back in the day, and then afterwards they'd have had a superfight.

Instead, team DM turned down the opportunity - to fight Hall, Harmon and De Grandis instead.

That's how bad they wanted Roy. Not.

They turned down $5M for Roy, to finally fight Joey De Grandis for $1-1.5M.

DM was all talk. His resume tells you what his intentions were. The best fighter in the world shouldn't have had to have gone to Germany in 2001, ESPECIALLY based on being the victim of the worst robbery in the HISTORY of the Olympics the last time he was in front of foreign judges in a foreign country getting flat out robbed in Korea. Jones was PFP which overshadows a division ranking of DM. PFP #1 is clearly A side.

———-
Truer words have never been spoken.