Comments Thread For: Clash of Mexican Superstars: Canelo Alvarez Duels All-Action Star Jaime Munguia

[Tag, You're Hit]

The fair and unbiased BoxRec computer says he should.

Don't trust your own judgment? Prefer to let A.I. decide for you?

[Tag, You're Hit]

It's not about fault - it's the bottom line he said that was the reason he couldn't fight Boots (was a rematch that wasn't happening). He knew as far back as November it wasn't happening - around that time is when he started talking about fighting Tank (a lightweight). That's the problem.

To my recollection, Bud never said he "couldn't" fight Boots, rather he wouldn't because he had different goals in mind. Those goals being BIG $ fights and legacy fights (like a belt in another division). I know the original contract with Spence dictated the 2nd fight had to happen by December 2023, but who knows what other agreements were in that contract. So, I don't know when the 2nd fight with Spence was determined to for sure not be happening. Maybe when Spence decided on cataract surgery. But, all there is so far is speculation that his contract with PBC is done, the Spence rematch is off, etc. Maybe the rematch still does happen at 147. I doubt it, though. If that happens in the next few months that is the only reason Bud should have any right to retain the belts he still has. Well, that and actually agreeing to fight Boots soon.

It seems to me, though, like Taylor and Haney (and Canelo), Bud isn't relinquishing the belts when he knows full well he isn't defending them. That's BS. He needs to let them go and allow others to get a crack at them and become undisputed.

So far, Inoue appears to be the only guy doing the undisputed thing RIGHT. He dumped the belts quickly when he decided he was going to move up. And now that he's hanging around at 122 for a while he's fighting the top guys and mandatories. RESPECT.

[Tag, You're Hit]

Let's flip it around.

daggum posted this in response to me saying it was a DECENT (not great) fight with Munguia:

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/b...1#post32199261



So as of 2023, The Ring thinks that

- Caleb Plant (who we're a fan of), who got stopped by Canelo and damn near stopped by Benavidez, is #3.
- Christian Mbilli (who we're a fan of), who has never fought for a world title and has only ever fought regional fringe other than Nicholson, is #2.
- Demond Nicholson, who is fresh off of two dominant losses (one to Andrade who got blown out by Benavidez, one to said fringe Mbilli) is #4.

The point is, rankings are designed to push narratives. It's up to the fan to evaluate the fighter and justify the narrative. Benavidez is the only one on the list who deserves to anywhere in the Top 5, and he moved up.

Rankings - until fighters fight each other - are definitely subjective. I don't know if I agree about them "pushing narratives" though. And you can only rank guys by the other guys in the division. Saying somebody is top 5 in whatever division doesn't mean he's even that good if the quality of the division is poor.

I think all of us sane people agree Benavidez is the top contender. But, other guys (Morrell, Mbilli) - much like Boots - pass the "eye" test, are destroying whoever is put in front of them, etc. And those guys have been at 168 for a while, unlike Munguia. And Munguia hasn't really fought anybody either. All we can do is go off of who think is deserving. Munguia is more deserving than Berlanga or Pacheco or Gongora, etc. But, in my not so humble opinion, not as deserving as Benavidez, Morrell, or Mbilli. I'd pick all 3 of those guys to destroy Munguia.

I don't know where you got Demond Nicholson being ranked #4 anywhere, though.

[A.B Counterhooks]

Rankings - until fighters fight each other - are definitely subjective. I don't know if I agree about them "pushing narratives" though. And you can only rank guys by the other guys in the division. Saying somebody is top 5 in whatever division doesn't mean he's even that good if the quality of the division is poor.

I think all of us sane people agree Benavidez is the top contender. But, other guys (Morrell, Mbilli) - much like Boots - pass the "eye" test, are destroying whoever is put in front of them, etc. And those guys have been at 168 for a while, unlike Munguia. And Munguia hasn't really fought anybody either. All we can do is go off of who think is deserving. Munguia is more deserving than Berlanga or Pacheco or Gongora, etc. But, in my not so humble opinion, not as deserving as Benavidez, Morrell, or Mbilli. I'd pick all 3 of those guys to destroy Munguia.

I don't know where you got Demond Nicholson being ranked #4 anywhere, though.

Im genuinely surprised you consider both morrell and mbilli much 'deserving' of a higher position in the ranks to get a shot at Canelos belts when they really haven't beat anyone of note(reason why they look so destructive imo), I get it ,maybe your opinion is based fact they been competing at 168 for a longer stint? Not quite sure but all I know is Mungia has only 2 bout as a SMW but unlike them, kid comes from stopping a real proven top contender even sending the dude to retirement. I do agree Benavidez is a legit top contender tho and the ginger should give him a shot before year ends.

Sometimes 'eye test' can be deceiving and just doesn't provide enough data to really measure a boxer true level.

Having said all this, I think Mungia is a worthy opponent for the ginger ,not over Benny, but just enough to cut it.

[ShoulderRoll]

Don't trust your own judgment? Prefer to let A.I. decide for you?

I trust the fair and unbiased computer more than I trust your judgement on Munguia. You appear to have a bias.

[Tag, You're Hit]

Im genuinely surprised you consider both morrell and mbilli much 'deserving' of a higher position in the ranks to get a shot at Canelos belts when they really haven't beat anyone of note(reason why they look so destructive imo), I get it ,maybe your opinion is based fact they been competing at 168 for a longer stint? Not quite sure but all I know is Mungia has only 2 bout as a SMW but unlike them, kid comes from stopping a real proven top contender even sending the dude to retirement. I do agree Benavidez is a legit top contender tho and the ginger should give him a shot before year ends.

Sometimes 'eye test' can be deceiving and just doesn't provide enough data to really measure a boxer true level.

Having said all this, I think Mungia is a worthy opponent for the ginger ,not over Benny, but just enough to cut it.

Well, they aren't A LOT more deserving than Munguia. And, yes, part of them being more deserving to me is their time at 168. They certainly don't have nearly the profile/fan base/hype and, therefore, marketability as Munguia. Also, I haven't said it in the posts to this article, but I've said it elsewhere: I like Munguia. He seems to be a nice young man. And his fights are exciting. Great combination of action and vulnerability due to his defensive deficiencies.

And I wouldn't have a problem with Canelo fighting Munguia if Canelo's last 4 fights hadn't been Bivol, GGG, Ryder, and Jermell. Canelo isn't fighting the best opponents in his division: FACT. Hell, THREE of those guys weren't even IN his division. And Munguia went to 168 - first fighting another 160-lber and then the ghost of Ryder, simply because Canelo fought him and didn't KO him - specifically to get the Canelo fight. So, is he really a 168 lber? I don't blame him or his team. Props to them for a great strategy.

And Benavidez deserves scrutiny too. Besides losing his belt on the scale (Canelo couldn't be "undisputed" without fighting Benavidez if he didn't lose the belt on the scale), he last fought Andrade who wasn't a true 168 lber either. And now he's going up to 175 for his next fight instead of fighting Morrell or Mbilli. From one point of view, he doesn't appear ever to get a shot at the belts at 168 the way things are going and he'll probably have a better chance fighting the winner of Beterbiev-Bivol. But, from the other point of view, he should do what Canelo isn't doing: clean out the division and be the People's Champ.

[Tag, You're Hit]

I trust the fair and unbiased computer more than I trust your judgement on Munguia. Yiu appear to have a bias.

First off, I keep asking YOUR opinion of the rankings. But you won't give it. Don't you have one? All you're doing is citing OTHER opinions (the alphabet belts, BoxRec, ME).

Of course I have a bias, which is just another way of saying I have an opinion. But, I think I've been pretty good at explaining how I reached my opinion. The above reply to A.B Counterhooks provides even more.

The last thing I'll say is I believe Munguia is gonna get throttled by Canelo. KO'd within 7 is my prediction. And IF I'm right (I've definitely been wrong plenty), my bias/opinion/reasoning will be vindicated (for this fight, anyway).

What is your prediction?

[garfios]

Im genuinely surprised you consider both morrell and mbilli much 'deserving' of a higher position in the ranks to get a shot at Canelos belts when they really haven't beat anyone of note(reason why they look so destructive imo), I get it ,maybe your opinion is based fact they been competing at 168 for a longer stint? Not quite sure but all I know is Mungia has only 2 bout as a SMW but unlike them, kid comes from stopping a real proven top contender even sending the dude to retirement. I do agree Benavidez is a legit top contender tho and the ginger should give him a shot before year ends.

Sometimes 'eye test' can be deceiving and just doesn't provide enough data to really measure a boxer true level.

Having said all this, I think Mungia is a worthy opponent for the ginger ,not over Benny, but just enough to cut it.

If you're basing mungia's deserving the shot because he demolished ryder, then you really like boxing but don't know how to judge talent. The ryder you are referring too, and been so generous in calling him a "proven contender"', is nothing more that a domestic level fighter and journeyman punching bag, he lasted this long because Hearn took him away and out of Morell Jr path, three years ago they were supposed fight after Morell Jr fight against caceres, he was at ringside scouting and promoting his next fight against the Cuban, guess what happened? He took the next flight to the UK and when asked about the fight he said that he was moving up to fight bivol, and let's be clear, if he had fought DMJ and won he would have fought canelo right after, instead they lied to their fans and fought four times more at SMW. So please, knowing this do you think he's a proven contender or a lucky guy that has lost every time he moved a step up in competition? The fact of the matter is that David Morell Jr is the longest #1 mandatory in the SMW division and a boxer that no guy with a 0 in their resume wants to face, mbilli was his mandatory for two years, did he ever mention the Cuban? The other mandatory, benavidez, he almost face him but he choose Andrade at the last minute, he said that he would fight him if canelo didn't give him his shot. Where is he now? Moving up. The kid is exciting but has been chosen because he's the weakest of the bunch, just by ginger own rules he shouldn't be in that position, he is Mexican.

[Tag, You're Hit]

If you're basing mungia's deserving the shot because he demolished ryder, then you really like boxing but don't know how to judge talent. The ryder you are referring too, and been so generous in calling him a "proven contender"', is nothing more that a domestic level fighter and journeyman punching bag, he lasted this long because Hearn took him away and out of Morell Jr path, three years ago they were supposed fight after Morell Jr fight against caceres, he was at ringside scouting and promoting his next fight against the Cuban, guess what happened? He took the next flight to the UK and when asked about the fight he said that he was moving up to fight bivol, and let's be clear, if he had fought DMJ and won he would have fought canelo right after, instead they lied to their fans and fought four times more at SMW. So please, knowing this do you think he's a proven contender or a lucky guy that has lost every time he moved a step up in competition? The fact of the matter is that David Morell Jr is the longest #1 mandatory in the SMW division and a boxer that no guy with a 0 in their resume wants to face, mbilli was his mandatory for two years, did he ever mention the Cuban? The other mandatory, benavidez, he almost face him but he choose Andrade at the last minute, he said that he would fight him if canelo didn't give him his shot. Where is he now? Moving up. The kid is exciting but has been chosen because he's the weakest of the bunch, just by ginger own rules he shouldn't be in that position, he is Mexican.

I like how Pauli Malignaggi put it the other day on ProBoxTV. Paulie - paraphrasing - said Canelo never fights his mandatories (168, 160, 154) if they pose a risk. Doesn't even mention their names. But when the mandatory is someone he knows he'll demolish he takes the fight and says "we don't have a choice, he's a mandatory".

[A.B Counterhooks]

If you're basing mungia's deserving the shot because he demolished ryder, then you really like boxing but don't know how to judge talent. The ryder you are referring too, and been so generous in calling him a "proven contender"', is nothing more that a domestic level fighter and journeyman punching bag, he lasted this long because Hearn took him away and out of Morell Jr path, three years ago they were supposed fight after Morell Jr fight against caceres, he was at ringside scouting and promoting his next fight against the Cuban, guess what happened? He took the next flight to the UK and when asked about the fight he said that he was moving up to fight bivol, and let's be clear, if he had fought DMJ and won he would have fought canelo right after, instead they lied to their fans and fought four times more at SMW. So please, knowing this do you think he's a proven contender or a lucky guy that has lost every time he moved a step up in competition? The fact of the matter is that David Morell Jr is the longest #1 mandatory in the SMW division and a boxer that no guy with a 0 in their resume wants to face, mbilli was his mandatory for two years, did he ever mention the Cuban? The other mandatory, benavidez, he almost face him but he choose Andrade at the last minute, he said that he would fight him if canelo didn't give him his shot. Where is he now? Moving up. The kid is exciting but has been chosen because he's the weakest of the bunch, just by ginger own rules he shouldn't be in that position, he is Mexican.

Oh I know how to judge talent alrite dont get confused here, my question remains who exactly morrell has ever beaten to become mandatory/interim,please dont tell me aidos or yamaguchi are better rivals then Chenko or Ryder , I know u always going to defend him cause hes cuban(i get and respect that) but we cant no longer use that excuse that absolutely NO ONE wants to fight him,this is pro boxing/prize fighting ,either DMJ needs to change manager or change promotions cause we dont want him to become another boo boo andrade lol.

PBC should just put him against mbilli or shishkin some real top 10 we already know the ginger has business to take care of with Jaime and possibly Benavidez giving his 3 fight plan this year. DMJ needs to stay busy against someone with a pulse. He also a big boy he could perfectly compete at 175 like benavidez if his team unable to get him a proper fight at SMW.