The Top 25 Lightweights of All-Time – 11 to 25

[BattlingNelson]

I see your point...but that's discussed somewhat at the bottom. If you want a methodology white paper I can gin it up but I don't think anyone else would read it.

Here's an example of stratification: Jimmy Carter scores extremely high at Lightweight and easily makes it into the first cut of 50. BUT no one can be sure how many of his fights were on the up and up...so he gets cut. This is essentially the same thing as the Jr. classes, and mostly follows scoring results.

That's possible that such an effort would be wasted on NSB. I was just dissapointed when reading through the article that the info wasn't given and I felt that it was a shame that the reader was only given some facts about the fighters and not the real reasoning as to why they are ranked where they are.

As it is now the article just presents some great fighters which is good for those who wants to know some of the rich history of our sport. Maybe if the article was written and presenting the underlying reasoning it would be an excellent topic of discussion in the historysection although it's not the norm to post articles in that section.

[TheGreatA]

Yeah, but some of those losses are a pox and call everything into question. Hey, it was mob time...whatcha gonna do?

I agree that it's difficult to rate him when it's well-documented that he "threw" fights. At his best he was a top 25 lightweight in my opinion but he didn't always give his best. Unfortunate.

[crold1]

Agree Great A...in a time where he wouldn't have been under mob thumb, who knows? He had top 15 talent.

BN:
More rationale is given in the top ten for why they are there.

[BattlingNelson]

Agree Great A...in a time where he wouldn't have been under mob thumb, who knows? He had top 15 talent.

BN:
More rationale is given in the top ten for why they are there.

That's fine Cliff. I look forward to read it.

[!! Shawn]

I think based on each man's best wins, and what should have been a win over Mayweather for Castillo IMO, Mosley doesn't sniff Castillo at Lightweight. I prefer, while respecting both, body of work over percieved talent advantage and on those terms, it would be irrational to have Mosley over Castillo. The only way to get there is giving Mosley credit for achievement in other classes. Mosley still made the cut because he did look THAT good against occasionally above average opp.

Then you should be calling it the top 25 resumes at lightweight of all time. Not the top 25 lightweights.

If you do that, you have to take into account a mans accomplishments at other weights an factor in that his skill level would have been the same at lower weights. So then you have to factor in his strength at those weights, and Shane was obviously an astoundingly Strong, FAST, Hard hitting lightweight.

Just like when you analyze Duran at 135, its ludicrous to not take into account he was able to do to Leonard after moving to 147, as it is further evidence of his skill level.

[crold1]

Then you should be calling it the top 25 resumes at lightweight of all time. Not the top 25 lightweights.

If you do that, you have to take into account a mans accomplishments at other weights an factor in that his skill level would have been the same at lower weights. So then you have to factor in his strength at those weights, and Shane was obviously an astoundingly Strong, FAST, Hard hitting lightweight.

Just like when you analyze Duran at 135, its ludicrous to not take into account he was able to do to Leonard after moving to 147, as it is further evidence of his skill level.

I can take that into account on a P4P list. This is about Lightweights, at Lightweight. You accumulate a better resume by fighting better fighters and winning more than losing. Strong resumes are a result of being a damn good fighter. Their resumes aren't even close at the weight. Mosley could easily have been left off but was included because I respected his total career in combination with how good he looked.

Your Duran analogy doesn't work here because Duran posted a resume at Lightweight which had people, in his time, rating him as the best they ever saw. Duran faced some monsters at 35. Leonard takes him from ATG Lightweight into discussions with ATG top ten guys.

[Doctor_Tenma]

You know I love you Cliff, but there is no rational for rating JLC higher than Mosley at 135.

[DiegoFuego]

How is Castillo ahead of Mosley? Because he was in better fights against Casamayor and Corrales? Don't forget he lost to Corrales and the Casamayor fight was close. So I guess Corrales is in your top 10 all time lightweights since he beat Castillo when they fought on even terms (that is, no weight advantage for Castillo)

[crold1]

How is Castillo ahead of Mosley? Because he was in better fights against Casamayor and Corrales? Don't forget he lost to Corrales and the Casamayor fight was close. So I guess Corrales is in your top 10 all time lightweights since he beat Castillo when they fought on even terms (that is, no weight advantage for Castillo)

Beat him by cheating...and got beat by cheating. All balanced out. And that was the culmination of his run. From 2000-05, Castillo worked through an awesome field. I don't even know why this is contentious...Mosley should be rated ahead, at Lightweight, because he beat Oscar and Margarito at 47 and 54?

[!! Shawn]

I can take that into account on a P4P list. This is about Lightweights, at Lightweight. You accumulate a better resume by fighting better fighters and winning more than losing. Strong resumes are a result of being a damn good fighter. Their resumes aren't even close at the weight. Mosley could easily have been left off but was included because I respected his total career in combination with how good he looked.

Your Duran analogy doesn't work here because Duran posted a resume at Lightweight which had people, in his time, rating him as the best they ever saw. Duran faced some monsters at 35. Leonard takes him from ATG Lightweight into discussions with ATG top ten guys.

Here is why you are wrong. Mosley best weight by far was 135. It was his strongest weight, the proper size for him, his fastest weight, his hardest hitting weight, to say well... I can consider him in a p4p sense, but I can't consider him as a 135lber is absurd. If you cannot legitimately rank one 135lb above another 135lb p4p, you cannot rank that 135lb above the other 135lber at 135lb either.
So if Shane Mosley > JLC p4p
Then JLC > Shane Mosley at 135lb doesn't make sense, since 135lb was Shane's best weight and you regard him as p4p better.

I know you are not ******, and I know you are not blind. Can you honestly tell me that JLC would have stood any chance of beating that 135lb phenom known as Sugar Shane Mosley? If the answer is no, you cannot rate JLC above Shane Mosley.