Comments Thread For: Hearn on Joshua-Wallin: You Don't Really Want to be Fighting a Southpaw; [Joshua] Has to be Aggressive

[letsgochump]

Wallin did more vs Fury than just legitimately cutting him.

Wallin busted up Fury real good, and pushed him in a close fight over 12 rounds.

And this was a 250 + pound Tyson Fury.

Note: For many years hardcore Fury fans, have called for Joshua to fight Wallin 'Some have even claimed that Joshua was avoiding Wallin, in fact they have been spinning the narrative that many Heavyweights have all been avoiding Wallin for years'.

Wallin is a better more experienced, and proven fighter now 'Than he was when he busted up Tyson Fury real good'.

If Joshua can beat Wallin over 12 rounds, and win 90-95% of the rounds 'That is a solid performance'.

If Joshua can force a stoppage or become the first fighter to knock-out Wallin 'Then that would be a great performance'.

Fury never hurt Wallin, never decked Wallin 'And he was busted up real good, pushed in a close fight' That is a nice benchmark comparison, for team Joshua to keep in mind 'It is in part what makes this fight interesting'.

The match up really has not got much of a theme, accept? Wallin pushed and busted up Tyson Fury real good 'Can Anthony Joshua beat Wallin more impressively?' etc.

Considering Fury was blind in the right eye for big portions of the fight and still outlanding Wallin by a lot is very telling. Wallin has been fighting bums since the Fury fight and he is older now. No basis to assume he will be better than he was vs Fury. He looks like he has made no adjustments and fights precisely the same every fight.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Considering Fury was blind in the right eye for big portions of the fight and still outlanding Wallin by a lot is very telling. Wallin has been fighting bums since the Fury fight and he is older now. No basis to assume he will be better than he was vs Fury. He looks like he has made no adjustments and fights precisely the same every fight.

Fury never hurt Wallin mate, who damaged Fury's eye? Wallin did.

Wallin is a more experienced, and proven fighter since fighting Fury 'He has achieved all of his best wins and performances post the Fury fight'.

Note: Theoretically all the evidence has stacked up, that he is now a better fighter 'Then when he fought Fury'.

Can Anthony Joshua, this petrified version of Joshua. Who is afraid to fight, and is a push over 'Can this version of Joshua beat Wallin in more impressive fashion than Tyson Fury? That is the story of the fight for me'.

Is Joshua a better fighter now, or when he first turned professional? Come on guys, goodness 'Come on and stop it with the banal cliche observations'.

Get over it, fighters progress in their careers 'They are not forever junior fighters'.

Wallin is a better fighter now, more proven than when he was inexperienced vs Tyson Fury 'Wallin was picked by team Fury, because they wanted a walk in the park type of fight. It all backfired, just like it backfired vs Ngannou'.

Tyson Fury was pushed in a close fight, and busted up real good over a duration of 12 rounds 'Fighters don't fluke 12 round fights' etc.

[letsgochump]

Fury never hurt Wallin mate, who damaged Fury's eye? Wallin did.

Wallin is a more experienced, and proven fighter since fighting Fury 'He has achieved all of his best wins and performances post the Fury fight'.

Note: Theoretically all the evidence has stacked up, that he is now a better fighter 'Then when he fought Fury'.

Can Anthony Joshua, this petrified version of Joshua. Who is afraid to fight, and is a push over 'Can this version of Joshua beat Wallin in more impressive fashion than Tyson Fury? That is the story of the fight for me'.

Is Joshua a better fighter now, or when he first turned professional? Come on guys, goodness 'Come on and stop it with the banal cliche observations'.

Get over it, fighters progress in their careers 'They are not forever junior fighters'.

Wallin is a better fighter now, more proven than when he was inexperienced vs Tyson Fury 'Wallin was picked by team Fury, because they wanted a walk in the park type of fight. It all backfired, just like it backfired vs Ngannou'.

Tyson Fury was pushed in a close fight, and busted up real good over a duration of 12 rounds 'Fighters don't fluke 12 round fights' etc.

Well would you still say Wallin made improvements? He had his weak jab and flat feet. He only did well against Fury bcs Fury isn't as great as people claim. He needs a big size and speed advantage in order to look good. Wallin seems to have bought into his own hype bcs he made it tough for Fury. He has made no improvements. Fury was unable to take advantage of Wallin's lack of dimension but Joshua made Wallin look like a complete amateur. I don't think he is any better of a fighter than when he fought Fury. He had more confidence in the beginning but Joshua quickly punched it out of him.

As tough as Fury vs Wallin was, I still think even Fury might well have stopped Wallin without the cut that completely messed up Fury's tactic and style. He had to improvise. That kind of a cut don't often open up even in complete wars (look at Fat Baby vs Dubois for instance) so he indeed did fluke a 12 round fight by getting an early cut.

Helenius is better than Wallin but before Saturday nobody would have agreed with that statement. Helenius has power and more punch selection. That kept Joshua at bay. Wallin was completely hapless.

[PRINCEKOOL]

Well would you still say Wallin made improvements? He had his weak jab and flat feet. He only did well against Fury bcs Fury isn't as great as people claim. He needs a big size and speed advantage in order to look good. Wallin seems to have bought into his own hype bcs he made it tough for Fury. He has made no improvements. Fury was unable to take advantage of Wallin's lack of dimension but Joshua made Wallin look like a complete amateur. I don't think he is any better of a fighter than when he fought Fury. He had more confidence in the beginning but Joshua quickly punched it out of him.

As tough as Fury vs Wallin was, I still think even Fury might well have stopped Wallin without the cut that completely messed up Fury's tactic and style. He had to improvise. That kind of a cut don't often open up even in complete wars (look at Fat Baby vs Dubois for instance) so he indeed did fluke a 12 round fight by getting an early cut.

Helenius is better than Wallin but before Saturday nobody would have agreed with that statement. Helenius has power and more punch selection. That kept Joshua at bay. Wallin was completely hapless.

Joshua has most likely beaten the best version of Wallin, but? I agree with your observation regarding Helenius.

Skill for skill I rate Helenius as a better fighter than Wallin 'Durability I believe is the only area, where Wallin is slightly better'.

Helenius was having no issue backing up Wilder, and was boxing very well before the knock-out 'I honestly believe? If Helenius was to rematch Wilder now, there is a definitive chance that he can win the fight'.

Note: Wallin is better now than when he fought Fury, he has more experience and has achieved his best wins 'The fight looked different vs Fury compared to Joshua, because of Joshua's punching power. And the fact that Joshua is a more technically correct and fundamentally sound fighter than Fury'.

Tyson Fury is a innately clumsy fighter, YES he is more of a natural fighter than Joshua 'But in terms of being text book, and technically correct. Fury is innately clumsy, his fights always consist of unforced errors and moments of technical calamity'.

That is why Tyson Fury has been decked the most times out of the top-4 Heavyweights 'That is why Fury has been decked at every single level, he has fought at. Fury has been decked at Domestic, European, and Elite level'.

It is why Fury got busted up by Otto Wallin 'Wallin had to land the punch in order to cut Fury mate'.

Although people like to mock Joshua's style, and claim that he is rigid 'Joshua fundamentally is a superior boxer than Fury. Joshua is a Olympic Champion'.

Tyson Fury's greatest achievement as a amateur was being beaten by David Price 'And this is not me trying to insult Fury, that is honestly Tyson Fury's greatest achievement as a amateur'.

Fury makes up for his lack of being fundamentally sound, by being able to freestyle 'He is a more fluid fighter than Joshua i.e Fury can switch between long, mid, and inside game more simultaneously than Anthony Joshua'.

It was Peter Fury who refined Tyson Fury's defense, and innate clumsiness 'Producing The Riddler' style. But since Fury has left Peter Fury's tutorage, I believe those former clumsy traits have began to appear back more evidently in his game'.

Yes mate, a big part of Fury's game especially as Kronk Fury has been to use his mass to beat certain fighters stylistically 'The only fighters Fury has bulled forward against have been fighters he has out weighed considerably I.E Steve USS Cunningham, Deontay Wilder'.

It is those two fights for Fury, which have kind of over exaggerated his abilities on the offensive.

95% of the time, when Fury has been inside the ring with another Super Heavyweight 'Fury has fought them on the back foot. Or when he has decided to fight then on the foot front? It has backfired, and those fights were then a mighty struggle'.

Kiltschko, Whyte, Chisora II & III I.E Tyson Fury fought all of those fights on the back foot predominately.

Wallin, Chisora I I.E Tyson Fury decided to fight more aggressively in those fights, and as a result they were not easy fights.

The Ngannou vs Fury fight is another contest were Fury was competing against a Super Heavyweight, and decided to fight on the back foot.

This narrative and myth, that Fury is a monster wrecking ball fighter 'Who will bull all of these other Heavyweights is a myth'. As you have pointed out, Fury always seems to only fight in this manner when he is out weighing his opponents by 30 to 40 pounds.

This is no disrespect to Tyson Fury 'Fury to his credit can read a fight very well, so I believe unlike certain fighters? He has major input on how he develop's tactics for his fights' etc.

[juggernaut666]

Well would you still say Wallin made improvements? He had his weak jab and flat feet. He only did well against Fury bcs Fury isn't as great as people claim. He needs a big size and speed advantage in order to look good. Wallin seems to have bought into his own hype bcs he made it tough for Fury. He has made no improvements. Fury was unable to take advantage of Wallin's lack of dimension but Joshua made Wallin look like a complete amateur. I don't think he is any better of a fighter than when he fought Fury. He had more confidence in the beginning but Joshua quickly punched it out of him.

As tough as Fury vs Wallin was, I still think even Fury might well have stopped Wallin without the cut that completely messed up Fury's tactic and style. He had to improvise. That kind of a cut don't often open up even in complete wars (look at Fat Baby vs Dubois for instance) so he indeed did fluke a 12 round fight by getting an early cut.

Helenius is better than Wallin but before Saturday nobody would have agreed with that statement. Helenius has power and more punch selection. That kept Joshua at bay. Wallin was completely hapless.

Wallin buzzed Fury in the last round and had him holding on , at the end of the day Fury couldn’t peel Wallin off him in just about every round and even got a thumb in the eye . He wouldn’t do that to Joshua if they fought 100 times , there’s a reason why Fury never wanted Wallin again and why his own father picked Wallin to defeat Joshua .

Helenius is a chinny extremely slow fighter with no defense he’s basically a poor man’s Wilder his opponents don’t actually have to worry much and can get rounds in with him without much fear of losing ,he’s got a few good wins but top guys fight him more or less fir a warm up ….well except Wilder his sparring partner knocking him out in one round .

[letsgochump]

Joshua has most likely beaten the best version of Wallin, but? I agree with your observation regarding Helenius.

Skill for skill I rate Helenius as a better fighter than Wallin 'Durability I believe is the only area, where Wallin is slightly better'.

Helenius was having no issue backing up Wilder, and was boxing very well before the knock-out 'I honestly believe? If Helenius was to rematch Wilder now, there is a definitive chance that he can win the fight'.

Note: Wallin is better now than when he fought Fury, he has more experience and has achieved his best wins 'The fight looked different vs Fury compared to Joshua, because of Joshua's punching power. And the fact that Joshua is a more technically correct and fundamentally sound fighter than Fury'.

Tyson Fury is a innately clumsy fighter, YES he is more of a natural fighter than Joshua 'But in terms of being text book, and technically correct. Fury is innately clumsy, his fights always consist of unforced errors and moments of technical calamity'.

That is why Tyson Fury has been decked the most times out of the top-4 Heavyweights 'That is why Fury has been decked at every single level, he has fought at. Fury has been decked at Domestic, European, and Elite level'.

It is why Fury got busted up by Otto Wallin 'Wallin had to land the punch in order to cut Fury mate'.

Although people like to mock Joshua's style, and claim that he is rigid 'Joshua fundamentally is a superior boxer than Fury. Joshua is a Olympic Champion'.

Tyson Fury's greatest achievement as a amateur was being beaten by David Price 'And this is not me trying to insult Fury, that is honestly Tyson Fury's greatest achievement as a amateur'.

Fury makes up for his lack of being fundamentally sound, by being able to freestyle 'He is a more fluid fighter than Joshua i.e Fury can switch between long, mid, and inside game more simultaneously than Anthony Joshua'.

It was Peter Fury who refined Tyson Fury's defense, and innate clumsiness 'Producing The Riddler' style. But since Fury has left Peter Fury's tutorage, I believe those former clumsy traits have began to appear back more evidently in his game'.

Yes mate, a big part of Fury's game especially as Kronk Fury has been to use his mass to beat certain fighters stylistically 'The only fighters Fury has bulled forward against have been fighters he has out weighed considerably I.E Steve USS Cunningham, Deontay Wilder'.

It is those two fights for Fury, which have kind of over exaggerated his abilities on the offensive.

95% of the time, when Fury has been inside the ring with another Super Heavyweight 'Fury has fought them on the back foot. Or when he has decided to fight then on the foot front? It has backfired, and those fights were then a mighty struggle'.

Kiltschko, Whyte, Chisora I & II I.E Tyson Fury fought all of those fights on the back foot predominately.

Wallin, Chisora I I.E Tyson Fury decided to fight more aggressively in those fights, and as a result they were not easy fights.

The Ngannou vs Fury fight is another contest were Fury was competing against a Super Heavyweight, and decided to fight on the back foot.

This narrative and myth, that Fury is a monster wrecking ball fighter 'Who will bull all of these other Heavyweights is a myth'. As you have pointed out, Fury always seems to only fight in this manner when he is out weighing his opponents by 30 to 40 pounds.

This is no disrespect to Tyson Fury 'Fury to his credit can read a fight very well, so I believe unlike certain fighters? He has major input on how he develop's tactics for his fights' etc.

I agree with essentially everything you said. I just don’t think Wallin has made any improvements to his game since the Fury fight. Wallin is an extremely limited guy and he still gave Fury a tough fight. Which logically means Fury is either very limited himself or he has a weak spot against guys who can jab.

And I don’t think Fury today could beat 2015 Wlad. Peter Fury was the only guy to coach him to use his size and build as much speed as possible while Luke was still young. This Kronk style Fury can wear guys out but is not going to beat well rounded and skilled boxers. This is why I don’t think the fight against Usyk will happen. Fury knows he will most likely lose unless he can find a weakness in Usyk that others have not found.

”The Chisora Recipe” isn’t it. Fury will have a few rounds to KO Usyk and after that he is too tired. Usyk being the smaller man and having incredible stamina will recover more between rounds and pull far ahead after the halfway point.

Against Joshua Fury might do ok mauling and hanging on to Joshua, leaning on him and so on. But I’d say it’s a 50-50 fight bcs AJ is a well rounded boxer, strong and punches hard. I’m not sure Fury can beat AJ from a distance and getting close carries big risk too.

Fury vs Zhang is 50-50, Fury vs AJ 50-50, Fury vs Usyk is a 40-60. And Fury vs Joyce is also 50-50 as Fury can’t really stop him.

23rd was a great night for the division.

[PRINCEKOOL]

I agree with essentially everything you said. I just don’t think Wallin has made any improvements to his game since the Fury fight. Wallin is an extremely limited guy and he still gave Fury a tough fight. Which logically means Fury is either very limited himself or he has a weak spot against guys who can jab.

And I don’t think Fury today could beat 2015 Wlad. Peter Fury was the only guy to coach him to use his size and build as much speed as possible while Luke was still young. This Kronk style Fury can wear guys out but is not going to beat well rounded and skilled boxers. This is why I don’t think the fight against Usyk will happen. Fury knows he will most likely lose unless he can find a weakness in Usyk that others have not found.

”The Chisora Recipe” isn’t it. Fury will have a few rounds to KO Usyk and after that he is too tired. Usyk being the smaller man and having incredible stamina will recover more between rounds and pull far ahead after the halfway point.

Against Joshua Fury might do ok mauling and hanging on to Joshua, leaning on him and so on. But I’d say it’s a 50-50 fight bcs AJ is a well rounded boxer, strong and punches hard. I’m not sure Fury can beat AJ from a distance and getting close carries big risk too.

Fury vs Zhang is 50-50, Fury vs AJ 50-50, Fury vs Usyk is a 40-60. And Fury vs Joyce is also 50-50 as Fury can’t really stop him.

23rd was a great night for the division.

I need to make a correction with my post.

It was Chisora II & III which Fury fought on the back foot 'In the first fight, Fury attempted to bull forward and? In my opinion it back fired, it was not a easy fight'.

Fury's inside game and brutality on the offense is overrated 'His fights vs USS Cunningham and Wilder, are the fights which people used to over exaggerated his brute strength and offense'.

Yes Joshua is not super great in any area, but he is a fundamentally sound boxer 'Joshua is one of the most proven power punchers at Heavyweight, and he is extremely experienced'.

Stylistically Joshua has always been a difficult fight for Fury 'I believe any fight where Fury's opponent is fundamentally sound, and Fury does not out weigh that fighter by 40 pounds. That type of match up is going to be a difficult fight for this version of Tyson Fury'.

Note: For sometime, I have theorized and suspected that Tyson Fury's current form 'And base form, has not been miles better than other top Heavyweights'. But as you know, that has been the narrative which his hardcore fans and media have incessantly promoted.

Fury vs Usyk may look like a very similar fight to Joshua vs Usyk in terms of action 'The only difference being ? Fury may do a bit better at imposing his inside game, and rough house tactics in the first half of the fight. But due to Fury being a innately clumsy fighter, he will be making more unforced errors than Anthony Joshua 'And this is where I can envision Usyk scoring points vs Fury'.

Fury's stamina is good, but it is also overrated 'I have in my past posts, documented the side by side statistics of Tyson Fury's top level fights compared to Anthony Joshua'.

The information shows that Joshua in most of his top level fights, is ether out working Fury or matching him in terms of work rate 'The actual raw objective data, shows that both Joshua and Fury have extremely comparable levels of endurance'.

But as you know? A popular narrative in regard to Joshua is 'That he loses fights because of his endurance. When the reality of the situation is? Joshua has never lost a fight due to his endurance. Joshua has only struggled against Heavyweights like Usyk who have elite level endurance'.

For the most part a hallmark trait of this super Heavyweight era, is that not many Heavyweights have great levels of endurance 'Fury, Joshua they have acceptable levels of endurance. But they have not shown themselves to be elite in this department'.

So this notion that Fury is suddenly going to be able to out pace Usyk 'It is going to be extremely difficult for Fury to achieve this, just like it was for Joshua'.

Many people in boxing mate, just buy into narratives 'And they don't analyse fights'. Joshua actually out worked Usyk in their first fight, which was a commendable feat to achieve, people pass over those kind of statistics.

Fury does not have bad endurance, but it is not elite 'There is no evidence for this'. Fury becomes fatigued in most of his fights, when they are competitive 'And when he enters into this state of being, he begins to make unforced errors. But to Fury's credit, he fights through this fatigue very well'.

For example Joyce vs Parker 'Joyce throw 844 punches, that is what it took for him to get Parker out of the fight'. That was a statistic I brought up before, the Parker vs Wilder fight 'When a certain poster on here, attempted to mock Parker for his performance vs Joyce. This poster claimed that Joyce was mediocre fighter'.

My response to this was? To highlight, that mediocre Heavyweights do not throw 844 punches in a fight 'The night Joyce fought Parker, he was not a mediocre fighter. It was one of Parker's best performances, and there is definitive evidence that Parker chronically damaged Joyce in that fight'.

Not only did Parker have to endure heavy bombardment from a potentially more powerful puncher than Fury, he also had to endure a higher intensity and frequency of attacks 'I used all of this evidence to make a case for Parker having the potential to beat Deontay Wilder'.

Wilder vs Fury III & Joyce vs Parker 'Both fights were 11 round fights'.

Tyson Fury's threw 385 punches, that is what it took for him to get Wilder out of the fight.

Joe Joyce throw 844 punches, that is what it took for him to get Parker out of the fight.

Joe Joyce endurance levels were over 200% greater than Fury's 'Usyk and Joyce are the only active Heavyweights who have displayed elite level endurance'.

Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk is a close match up, but? Even from this far out mate, I have theorized that if Fury loses vs Usyk 'Fury will lose in worst fashion than Anthony Joshua. Mainly due to Fury being a innately clumsy fight technically, and his endurance in reality not being elite. Fury's endurance is good, but it is not on current form anywhere near Usyk's level' etc.